Hong Kong in Turmoil

LETA

4☆babbler
Staff
:m11:​
Thousands protesting in the streets while the Chinese army is assembling outside the city preparing to crush the rebellion and restore law and order, sources say. Next stop for the Chinese army, @Fish house!
 
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Fish

Guest
Lol, i support the Chinese government. Hong Kong protesters are the real terrorists imo. I know that cause it happened here too and most of them are the brainless youngsters who are fighting for so called freedom when they already have freedom.
 
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Fish

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The youngsters are blinded by hate. Sad to see HK is slowly getting destroyed by them. The economy is not doing well there, the country's performance is deteriorating.
 
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Dundee

Guest
If the Chinese government forces the the extradition bill it is a downward spiral away from any chance of democracy.
It will mean people in places effected by that such as Hong Kong, I think Taiwan and others can be detained and extradited as political prisoners. It would have a huge detrimental effect on freedom of speech, freedom of the press and so much more.
Some estimates put the number of political prisoners in china at over 1.6 million people.

Human Rights watch reported that...

Authorities dramatically stepped up repression and systematic abuses against the 13 million Turkic Muslims, including Uyghurs and ethnic Kazakhs, in China’s northwestern Xinjiang region. Authorities have carried out mass arbitrary detention, torture, and mistreatment of some of them in various detention facilities, and increasingly imposed pervasive controls on daily life. New regulations in Tibet now criminalize even traditional forms of social action, including community mediation by religious figures. In Hong Kong, a region promised “a high degree of autonomy” under the Sino-British Joint Declaration, the Chinese and Hong Kong governments hastened their efforts in 2018 to undermine people’s rights to free speech and political participation.

Human rights defenders continue to endure arbitrary detention, imprisonment, and enforced disappearance. The government maintains tight control over the internet, mass media, and academia. Authorities stepped up their persecution of religious communities, including prohibitions on Islam in Xinjiang, suppression of Christians in Henan province, and increasing scrutiny of Hui Muslims in Ningxia.


And don't even get me started on Tibet!!

Media Censorship in China

The Chinese government has long kept tight reins on both traditional and new media to avoid potential subversion of its authority. Its tactics often entail strict media controls using monitoring systems and firewalls, shuttering publications or websites, and jailing dissident journalists, bloggers, and activists.


You could write volumes on China's human rights abuses. I have heard the argument put forward by china that it is their right as a government to decide how their country is run. Quite true, but it is also the right of an oppressed people to stand up and try to fight it.


I am not saying that a democracy is the best system in the world to have, it is far from perfect, and you could probably write a book on its faults. But Australia and the US, doesn't have 1.6 million political prisoners. We have relatievely fair if not sometimes a bit rigged elections, not a dictatorship that changes the rules to keep our leader in power forever.
We can criticize our governments and leaders on their decisions and not get locked up. We have our share of racism and religious intolerance, but our governments don't wage war on religions freedoms.
I am darn sure I would prefer to live with the freedoms I enjoy in a democracy than the oppression endured by Chinese citizens.
 
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Dundee

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Thousands protesting in the streets while the Chinese army is assembling outside the city preparing to crush the rebellion and restore law and order, sources say. Next stop for the Chinese army, @Fish house!
Wow, if this footage is accurate and not propaganda, this could be Tienanmen Square all over again...
Here comes the Communist Iron Fist.

 
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Fish

Guest
Imo any country would do that, the protesters are never ending, they became violent and they are destroying ppl's property, the HK Government has already warned that if u don't stop the military will get involved.

It's unfair to let youngsters to destroy the country, ppl's property just because of their personal hate towards the government.
 
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Dundee

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Imo any country would do that, the protesters are never ending, they became violent and they are destroying ppl's property, the HK Government has already warned that if u don't stop the military will get involved.

It's unfair to let youngsters to destroy the country, ppl's property just because of their personal hate towards the government.
The people destroying the property are in a minority. You get them in every protest. We get them here in Australia. However we have seem much footage of literally millions of people in Hong Kong, all protesting, all peaceful. So the ones getting violent are not a reflection on all the protesters. Yes I agree, any country would do that to some degree, large and small. However how they go about it differs greatly.
The people of Hong Kong have every right to be worried about the heavy oppressive hand of the Chinese government. Change often comes from the people. They are just standing up for what they believe.

If you do a little history lesson you will see at the time the Brits handed over Hong Kong it was the intent of the Chinese government for mainland china to become more open and democratic like Hong Kong was. If I remember they hoped that it might take 50 years but that was the goal. That idea soon fell over it seems
 
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Fish

Guest
No many are violent, they are the ones who broke the shopping malls, shutdown the airport and stop the flights, stop people from going to work, ruining ppl's business, destroying the country's economy and etc.

As i know they start protesting for a criminal to not get extradited in China, thats all. they already have freedom, HK has its own government, law, system and etc. Many has even asked this same question, what so called freedom are they really fighting for?
 
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Dundee

Guest
No many are violent, they are the ones who broke the shopping malls, shutdown the airport and stop the flights, stop people from going to work, ruining ppl's business, destroying the country's economy and etc.

As i know they start protesting for a criminal to not get extradited in China, thats all. they already have freedom, HK has its own government, law, system and etc. Many has even asked this same question, what so called freedom are they really fighting for?
Here is 2 million people protesting peacefully, if two million people got violent, there would be no Hong Kong left.
So compared to the millions and millions of people who have protested over the last weeks it is a relative few. But yes, I agree they are not doing their cause any good. But the frustration is understandable.


And it is not "A Criminal", it is the ability to scoop up "all criminals" in Hong Kong and send them back to mainland china to disappear and add to the 1.6 Million political prisoners already detained.

And the definition of what is criminal is frightening.
This is what they are protesting. And the harsh treatment by Police.
If you speak out against the government or its policy you can disappear forever.
 
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Dundee

Guest
1.6 million political prisoners? Are u sure? That is almost a country size, i highly doubt that, country would go on a loss looking after these ppl.
Cant find the one I read yesterday, but here is Human Rights watch Estimate of 1 Million Political Prisoners.

Since then, authorities have stepped up mass arbitrary detention, including in pretrial detention centers and prisons, both of which are formal facilities, and in “political education” camps, which have no basis under Chinese law. Credible estimates indicate that 1 million people are being indefinitely held in the camps, where Turkic Muslims are being forced to learn Mandarin Chinese, praise the government and party, and abandon many aspects of their distinct identity. Those who resist or are deemed to have failed to “learn” are punished.

Authorities dramatically stepped up repression and systematic abuses against the 13 million Turkic Muslims, including Uyghurs and ethnic Kazakhs, in China’s northwestern Xinjiang region.


I tried to see how many Political prisoners there are in Australia, I could not find a number. I don;t think we have any.
 
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Fish

Guest
China is a atheist country, they don't want any religion, even it's own Chinese religion is dying off.

But now it's about Hong Kong not China, they both are different, that criminal was going to get judged in the court in China only, wasn't going to stay in China.

Cant find the one I read yesterday, but here is Human Rights watch Estimate of 1 Million Political Prisoners.
I still don't think that is possible, the prison would look like a huge skyscraper building to keep that many ppl and its going to cost way alot of money to maintain and look after them.
 
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Dundee

Guest
China is a atheist country, they don't want any religion, even it's own Chinese religion is dying off.

But now it's about Hong Kong not China, they both are different, that criminal was going to get judged in the court in China only, wasn't going to stay in China.


I still don't think that is possible, the prison would look like a huge skyscraper building to keep that many ppl and its going to cost way alot of money to maintain and look after them.
I suspect that number is not all at once, my guess would be that it is over a period of years or decades. I will look int it further and get back to you.
 
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Dundee

Guest
OK so if you read the following they are including what China is calling reeducation camps, pretrial detention centers
Political education camps etc. So while not all are strictly classed as criminals, they are still being held against their will in detention for political reasons.
Its like anything, you can find numbers to suit any argument if you look long enough.
But given the numbers o political prisoners in places like Australia or the US, does it really matter if it is 1 million, half a million, 10 thousand or even 1 thousand.

If you hold someone against their will because they are of a different political view that is pretty crappy.
And china's religious oppression is woeful, that is many many millions of people being opressed.

Since then, authorities have stepped up mass arbitrary detention, including in pretrial detention centers and prisons, both of which are formal facilities, and in “political education” camps, which have no basis under Chinese law. Credible estimates indicate that 1 million people are being indefinitely held in the camps, where Turkic Muslims are being forced to learn Mandarin Chinese, praise the government and party, and abandon many aspects of their distinct identity. Those who resist or are deemed to have failed to “learn” are punished.
 
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Dundee

Guest
1,7 Million people or about 1/4 of the population of Hong Kong march in Peaceful protest...
When you consider babies, small children, the elderly, unwell people can't march the figure that is able bodied politically aware people may be considerably higher than 1/4 of the population. Then consider many may agree but are too frightened to march? What is the real number of people in Hong Kong who disagree with what China is trying to do?

 
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Dundee

Guest
Twitter disclosed a “significant state-backed information operation” originating from within the People’s Republic of China (PRC) targeting the pro-democracy movement in Hong Kong. It removed 936 accounts and suspended approximately 200,000 accounts its investigation found were illegitimate.

“Covert, manipulative behaviors have no place on our service – they violate the fundamental principles on which our company is built,” Twitter said in a statement.