Is Jordan the True Birthplace of Islam?

LETA

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According to a new controversial documentary by Dan Gibson, it is. Gibson, a historian and author makes a compelling case for the historical revision and possible relocation of the sacred city of Mecca, the traditional birthplace of the prophet Muhammed (PBUH), to the kingdom of Jordan. The author, who conducted a rigorous research based on archeological discoveries and historic Islamic manuscripts, argues that modern-day Muslims are orienting their prayers to the wrong coordinates.

Mecca, currently located in Saudi Arabia, does not match the topography or climate described in the Qur’an about the legendary city responsible for launching the second largest religion in the world. Its arid climate and distance from the main trade routes known to exist in the time of the Prophet, simply do not fit the new scientific data, Gibson says. The city of Petra in Jordan, however, seems to be the ideal location based on satellite imaging and terrain mapping of landmarks described in the sacred text.

While the documentary is bound to cause some discomfort among Islamic scholars and Muslim believers, it is worthy to note that Gibson is not at all antagonistic towards Islam or is trying to undermine its sacred scriptures. Quite the contrary. His hope is to bring to the attention of the Islamic world an issue which is of the upmost importance to the faith.

 
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Dr Wu

Guest
One wonders why it even matters. Islam is the third in the line of monotheistic religions after Judaism and Christianity....allegedly 'Allah' (God) came to Muhammad and said start another religion ..you are my 'newest' prophet. The Arab people were mostly bedouin tribes and wandered various areas until he united then under 'Islam'. Mecca is where the black stone called the kabba stone is held...most likely a meteorite seen falling in the desert and became a sacred object long before Islam was founded... some how becoming a symbol of Islam under Muhammad. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Stone
 
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Dundee

Guest
I guess it is culturally significant to know the origins of your belief. Kind of like a sporting hero, I am sure the folks in Baltimore like to brag it was where Babe Ruth was born. I imagine there is a sence of pride?? ownership?? to something like that.

If you can associate a major religons origin to your country, or city. That is a big deal for a follower of that religion.
But your right, it should not matter I guess.
 
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Area201

Guest
Their "Mohammed is the last prophet" position and overall attitude is so obnoxious. All these religions are just expressions of universal truths, and they will never stop being expressed and come in different forms. To declare one the "last" is bogus. There is some really shady and fraudulent things, if not really outdated for modern times, about Islam and it is maybe the only major religion that's not interested me or resonated much.

Also the reason why so many Muslims are in Jerusalem is because the last prophet Mohammed allegedly, on the night of his death, flew on a chariot to Jerusalem! So they built a temple (3rd most holy in Islam). Basically put a flag on someone else's land, and large base reason we have all the conflict in the Middle East. How about we say Moses parted the heavens an jet-packed his way the night of his death to Mecca? So now we must build a temple on the Rock. smh

Not to mention the owning of sex slaves, very young girls married to men 3-4 times their age, domestic abuse, the can't draw a cartoon version of the prophet mentality, etc. I'm sure there is an upside to some of Islam's practices (fasting and prayer).

Anyway, that's my rant - good article @LETA, very interesting provocative claim. Wouldn't be shocked if he is killed now.
 
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HAL

Guest
..Basically put a flag on someone else's land, and large base reason we have all the conflict in the Middle East...

Really ? Some may argue that history says otherwise.
 
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Dundee

Guest
..Basically put a flag on someone else's land, and large base reason we have all the conflict in the Middle East...

Really ? Some may argue that history says otherwise.
Didn't this all get divided up after WW2 under the presumption of sovereignty?
Perhaps the saying "To the Victor goes the spoils" should be "Let the victor cause the chaos"
Different times I guess, it is easy to be wise looking back into history.
 
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Dr Wu

Guest
Didn't this all get divided up after WW2 under the presumption of sovereignty?
Perhaps the saying "To the Victor goes the spoils" should be "Let the victor cause the chaos"
Different times I guess, it is easy to be wise looking back into history.
That's correct...after WW2 'the western powers that be' decided which countries were going to exist, which leaders, and what borders.
Things have changed over the last 75 years due to various conflicts over borders , oil, and the Zionist-Israel state concerns which of course led to various small wars, later conflicts, and numerous incidents.
As to who had rights to what land before modern times is open to historical arguments as there were many conquerors and changes over the last 1,000 years or so.
 
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HAL

Guest
I think the Balfour Agreement (1937 ?) was the start of the modern trouble. But if I remember from my history, the area was originally Judea. But the Jews lost it in some ancient battle to, I think, the Egyptians. This is why the Jews claim it to be their ancient homeland. Or something like that. It's all very complicated.

But really that is like selling a house to someone then, years later trying to claim it because you originally owned it.
 
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Dr Wu

Guest
The Balfour Declaration(1917)...very complicated...and largely blamed for much of the situation there to this day.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration
The declaration had many long-lasting consequences. It greatly increased popular support for Zionism within Jewish communities worldwide, and became a core component of the British Mandate for Palestine, the founding document of Mandatory Palestine, which later became Israel and the Palestinian territories. As a result, it is considered a principal cause of the ongoing Israeli–Palestinian conflict, often described as the world's most intractable conflict.
The declaration had two indirect consequences, the emergence of a Jewish state and a chronic state of conflict between Arabs and Jews throughout the Middle East. It has been described as the "original sin" with respect to both Britain's failure in Palestine and for wider events in Palestine.] The statement also had a significant impact on the traditional anti-Zionism of religious Jews, some of whom saw it as divine providence; this contributed to the growth of religious Zionism amid the larger Zionist movement.
 
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HAL

Guest
There is a further aspect to this. And to put it crudely (I'll try to explain) Israel was a very convenient dumping ground for the Jews after WWII.

Here is how I come to this.

David Ben Gurian, leader of the Zionists, was a good friend of Winston Churchill.
Then comes the second world war. This was finally brought to an end (after Germany had surrendered) by the atomic bombs on Japan. And so MAD began.

But the bomb was largely developed by mostly Jewish physicists in America.

Then there is the Jewish situation in Europe. After the war, how could they return to Germany, or even Russia ?

It appears that Ben Gurian said to Churchill, 'Winston, you owe us. We need a homeland for the Jewish people. Somewhere where they can recover from the past'.

And Churchill used the British forces to clear a large part of Palestine and gave it to Ben Gurian. A Zionist State was formed.

But planting a very large and ever growing Jewish population in the middle of an Arab Muslim country was always going to have consequences.

It's very convenient for the West to have this 'aircraft carrier' state where it is. It does appear to be the only state in the world that is allowed to have illegal nuclear weapons. And if it cause some strife with places like Iran then America will back it; as they when it bombed the atomic reactor in Baghdad.

So it is very convenient to the West.

The important thing to remember is that not all Jews are Israeli.
 
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Dundee

Guest
There is always two aspects to this. The politics which is all about power, and $$
But once they set up the infrastructure, the religious aspect kicks in.
My god is better than your god. You watch the fundies of the dominant religions and for me the only response I can muster is wtf. I apologize to all the well meaning god botherers that may be here , but ffs. You all preach about peace and forgiveness, then shoot the hell out of your neighbor and want to drive them from their homes.

In my opinion, organized religion is the root of all evil.

To be very cliche...
A bomb goes off in your village, your wife, your mum, your nan, and your kids are blown to bits.
Play this and ask yourself is my religion so different to the ones who killed your family that will bear such a loss.

And more important, do you really think this is what your god, or your enemies god wanted. "Really"

Make Love, not war.

 
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HAL

Guest
Most of the bombs set off in the UK were not by Islamic fanatics. They happened long before all that stuff began. And were by people of our own two main western religions.
 
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Dundee

Guest
Most of the bombs set off in the UK were not by Islamic fanatics. They happened long before all that stuff began. And were by people of our own two main western religions.
Yeah good point. I am just not a fan of any religion really, I class Budhism more of a philosophy so it for me is the exception although it has not got an unblemished past if you care to look. I watched a doco yesterday on a certain religions growing influence in a certain country. It was awful, men frightened to say their opinions, women not even of the faith in question completely covering their heads not through faith, but to blend in and stay anonymous. I am not telling you anything, you already know this stuff. And Christianity...bloody hell how many have died in the name of the church over the centuries.

I just close my eyes and listen to the words of Imagine and think how much better the would could be without peoples insistence in believing an an invisible deity.

Anyway, Sunday morning here, suns out. I am going to grab my dog and go for a drive.