Moon Landing Hoax....NOT

I guess that I was a little more manipulative than a thought. So... You see how easy it is even for those with minds. Imagine how easy it is for vulnerable minds like the moon-landing deniers to manipulate each other in to a conspiring paranoia of pandemic proportions. One of which swears upon the Lord, that the USA is hiding special things in a giant Mexican basement, yet - should the very same individuals turn up on another website insisting that the USA can not reach the moon two minutes later? All of the cloaks and daggers are very exciting. A little cloak and dagger excitement never hurt anyone! I am not here to spoil the fun. However... One thing leads to another until we find that very bored people are constantly telling the vulnerable minds that the Earth is flat and politics is controlled by the global elite and such vulnerable minds then go out in to the world and vote. This is called devolution. Science and history are being hurt.

I will say one about the greedy global though! They all got up off of their fat asses and earned it!
Yeah, well said.
People often get pooey at me for spoiling the fun. I get labeled (in the past) a skeptic and called closed minded and so on.
But the silly thing is that it could not be farther from the truth...

  1. I believe in UFO's I have seen two (I think :) )
  2. I believe in the paranormal, I have encountered it many times, (never welcome)
  3. I am very spiritual and have had a lot of experiences off...The mind??
  4. I have many others on this list :)

However,

  1. I Believe that 99% of UFO sightings are explainable
  2. I believe 99% of ghost sightings are explainable
  3. I believe that 99% of so called mind readers and spiritualists are charlatans at worsts, deluded at best.

I would like nothing more than to meet a real life ET, who wouldn't.
But I am not going to believe stuff blindly just because it suits my wished for outcome.

So i try to pull apart ever event from the point of view of a skeptic (even though I am a believer)
not in an attempt to disprove it, but in an attempt to be unable to disprove it.
Because then, how cool is that, if you try everything you have, look at as many arguments as you can,
and still you say, shit I don't reckon that explains it.

Well that leaves you with that little 1% that just might be the real deal.
It is just unfortunate that most of this stuff, like the so called moon landing hoax, is so easily debunked by the simplest bit of looking.

I just wish people could debate, without getting upset when presented with rational science.
 
I think the 1982 E.T. may be one of closest to reality. A group of scientists from another world that have an obsession with plants. We envision the 1977 Close Encounters of the Third Kind. A genuine meeting. We laugh 1988 Mac and Me. A complete clown. We fear 1996 Independence Day. The laws of average put us in a very safe place away from turn that out because the aliens will have to be very loyal to each other to evolve to that state. We ponder 1987 Predator. A world where mankind is too frightened to carry a gun is not a bad turn out. We are horrified by 1979 Alien. An insect that uses us as hosts is scarier than death.
 
I don't know what to think, the whole bipedal, binary vision apposing thumbs thing seems sensible. But I wonder if you messed with an environment a lot what would you get. I mean look how different underwater creatures are. Imagine an advanced alien race that is 1000 years ahead of us but lived completely underwater. What would their tech (if they had any) look like. What would their transportation look like.
What about a life form that may have developed in total darkness 100km underground in a lake of some weird chemical soup.

Almost all the movies we watch have aliens roughly like us, except perhaps the Alien Series with the insect thing.
But what about the ones that might exist that we can''t yet imagine.
 
All I can say to that is because of the existence of life on Earth is so precious to me, I would see the possibilities as endless. I am a particular kind of Atheist, I see existence as a miracle, a direct act of God.
 
All I can say to that is because of the existence of life on Earth is so precious to me, I would see the possibilities as endless. I am a particular kind of Atheist, I see existence as a miracle, a direct act of God.
Wow that is really interesting, how can you be an Atheist, but believe in GOD, or was that just the way the words landed :), unless like me you believe there is one common underlying truth. Christians interpret it as GOD, Buddhist, Nirvana, others a Cosmic conciseness, all the other faiths with their own explanations. One reality, many interpretations depending on your background and teachings.

Once many years ago studied under a Guru name Dada, Nalinalisa (Spelling??? :unsure: ). She explained the most beautiful analogy to account for all the different beliefs on earth. Once conversation and I learned understanding and tolerance.
 
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Off topic but I don;t believe in GOD, if by god you mean a large snowy haired man behind the pearly gates keeping tabs on folks. However I do believe 100% if a christian claims they felt the pres sense of god that they are (could be) telling the truth. The difference is though it is the truth according to their upbringing, past education, and religious disposition. But the same experience if felt by a Buddhist may say they glimpsed enlightenment, another culture something else again.
Same truth, different interpretation. So for me personally, their is a collective conciseness that is the universe and all that is in it. That I guess if we are one day smart enough could relate back to science. And it is that collective conciseness we as individuals glimpse from time t time if we are lucky.
 
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You're right D. We are leaving the moon's surface a bit. Let us venture back and place an official AlienBabble flag there marking... oh no... Wait... Nasa already did that as some of us already know!:cool:
 
OK, So I have been waiting for old mate to return with his explanation as to why the Apollo program was faked. "I hear Crickets..."

I looked for the Book online you referred to called Dark Moon but came across a five part video (linked below) by the Author where her and a panel of her supporters go to town. I daresay she does not cover all her arguments in only 5 short episodes. But I have addressed in detail the claims made, and show you just how ridiculous and easily debunked they are with a little effort (Actually a couple of hours :( )


Claims the Radiation from the Van Allen Belt would kill the Astronauts.
There is 101 places out there showing this to be untrue, here is just two with explanations.

  • To monitor radiation exposure during the flights, Apollo crews carried dosimeters on board their spacecraft and on their persons. And these readings confirmed NASA had made a good choice. At the end of the program, the agency determined that its astronauts had avoided the large radiation doses many feared would ground flights to the Moon. Over the course of the lunar missions, astronauts were exposed to doses lower than the yearly 5 rem average experienced by workers with the Atomic Energy Commission who regularly deal with radioactive materials.

    From Popular Science
    https://www.popsci.com/blog-network/vintage-space/apollo-rocketed-through-van-allen-belts#page-4


    If you prefer the Math…

    4. Some people believe that the Apollo moon landings were a hoax because astronauts would have been instantly killed in the radiation belts. According to the US Occupation Safety and Health Agency (OSHA) a lethal radiation dosage is 300 Rads in one hour. What is your answer to the 'moon landing hoax' believers?

    Refer to the diagram in the link below…

    1. The speed of the spacecraft will be about 25,000 km/hour. If the spacecraft travels along the indicated path, how long, in minutes, will it spend in the Blue, Green, Yellow, Orange and Red regions? Note: transit estimates may vary depending on how accurately students measure figure.

    Blue: 1.8 Re x (6378 km/Re) x (1 hour/25,000 km) x (60 minutes/1 hour) = 27.6 minutes
    Yellow: (1.4 x 6378) /25,000 x 60 = 6.1 minutes
    Orange: (1.0 x 6378) / 25,000 x 60 = 15.3 minutes
    Green: (0.25 x 6378)/25,000 x 60 = 3.8 minutes
    Red: 0 minutes
    Total transit time........................... 52.8 minutes

    Given the indicated radiation dosages in Rads/sec for each zone, what will be the dosages that the astronauts receive in each zone?

    Blue: = 27.6 minutes x ( 60 sec/ 1 minute) x (0.0001 Rads/sec) = 0.17 Rads
    Yellow = 6.1 minutes x 60 sec/minute x 0.005 rads/sec = 1.83 Rads
    Orange = 15.3 minutes x (60 sec/minute) x 0.01 rads/sec = 9.18 Rads
    Green = 3.8 minutes x (60 sec/minute) x 0.001 rads/sec = 0.23 Rads

    3. What will be the total radiation dosage in Rads for the transit through the belts?
    0.17 + 1.83 + 9.18 + 0.23 = 11.4 Rads


    In truth it turned out to be much less,
  • Note: According to radiation dosimeters carried by Apollo astronauts, their total dosage for the entire trip to the moon and return was not more than 2 Rads over 6 days
  • https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/files/SMIII_Problem7.pdf


Supposed discrepancies of Aldrin Coming down the Ladder.

They claim he does not lift his foot, and that Armstrong is not even there in that position.
Looking at the video you cannot even see Aldrin's feet until his is well and truly on the ladder.
In the still Aldrin's right foot is not even on the top step when his left foot goes back. In the footage this is completely dark and cannot be seen. Also Armstrong does seem to be exactly in the correct position to take the photo..

Still Image
as11-40-5866.jpg


Video


I see no discrepancy.



The Argument that the lighting was wrong, that the dark side of the LEM should have been totally black..

In fact this debunks all the lighting arguments, the so called rocks that should be dark etc.
Just watch it, they explain better than I.

 
The Camera Arguments??

A comprehensive set of camera equipment was carried on board Apollo 11. This included two 16mm Maurer motion picture film cameras, a color television camera in the orbiting Columbia, and a black and white TV camera outside of the lunar module to transmit to Earth Neil Armstrong's first steps on the Moon's surface. A Kodak stereo close-up camera was used to film the lunar soil from only inches away. Three Hasselblad 500EL cameras were carried.

Two of the Hasselblad cameras were identical to those carried on the earlier Apollo 8 and 10 lunar orbit missions. During the Moon landing one Hasselblad was left aboard the Command Module Columbia, which remained in lunar orbit. Two were taken on the Lunar Module Eagle to the Moon's surface.

The Data Camera used on the lunar surface during the Apollo 11 mission and later Moon landings was a 500EL with additional modifications


He claims the film, used was Kodak standard off the shelf 160 ASA ectachrome

Umm no it wasn’t…

Each film magazine would typically yield 160 color and 200 black and white pictures on special film. Kodak was asked by NASA to develop thin new films with special emulsions. On Apollo 8, three magazines were loaded with 70 mm wide, perforated Kodak Panatomic-X fine-grained, 80 ASA, b/w film, two with Kodak Ektachrome SO-168, one with Kodak Ektachrome SO-121, and one with super light-sensitive Kodak 2485, 16,000 ASA film. There were 1100 color, black and white, and filtered photographs returned from the Apollo 8 mission.


On Apollo 11
Two of the Hasselblad cameras were identical to those carried on the earlier Apollo 8 and 10 lunar orbit missions (as above)


Claims no Viewfinder so unlikely to be able to line up the photos correctly

Additionally, the cameras had no reflex mirror viewfinder and instead a simple sighting ring assisted the astronaut in pointing the camera.
https://www.history.nasa.gov/apollo_photo.html

Camera shot is from high vantage point. Claims cameras were only chest mounted.
See above list of available cameras.


He Claims rocks are totally black yet in the photo his own reference there are plenty of lit and dark surfaces.
All explained above (see Nvidia demonstration)


The camera film would have been unusable due to huge temperature variations..

Just read…
See the section called Huge, Deadly Temperature Variations Claims.
https://pseudoastro.wordpress.com/2008/09/07/apollo-moon-hoax-huge-temperature-variation-claims/



The XRays would have destroyed the film in the cameras.

Umm No…

The radiation dosage for a year on the moon is between 110 mSv and 380 mSv. On Earth, that dosage is 2.4 mSv, or higher, depending on where you are exactly. Bottom line, the few days in Lunar orbit would have aged the film due to radiation between 50-150 days/ day in orbit maximum, thus it would be the equivalent of film that was aged a few years at most. The environment at the Moon is more likely to have high energy effects, which I'll get to later. Chernobyl produced about 80 mSv/ second after the incident, considerably more than on the surface of the Moon! To this day, the dosage at the center of Chernobyl is around 10 mSv/ second.

The Apollo missions were launched near the Solar Minimum, which would tend to have more higher cosmic ray strikes, and higher overall radiation, but fewer solar storms.

Furthermore, there actually ARE signs of radiation in some of the images, if you look carefully. At the very least, it's dust in on the film, the two can be difficult to tell apart. For instance, look in high resolution at the dark portion of this image. The lines that run through it are quite possibly signs of radiation strikes, or even (gasp!) stars.

https://space.stackexchange.com/que...11-to-film-and-take-pictures-with-such-radiat



The shadows are not parallel in the photos.

I am getting tired, check out below, or ask any primary school kid that is good at art to explain the concept of Vanishing point. The parallel shadows argument is a stupid as asking why does the sides road in front of me get smaller closet to the horizon.
http://www.iangoddard.com/moon01.htm


He makes some utterly un-researched claims about the thrust of the LEM as compared to the Saturn 5 stage, as well as where is all the sound. Shouldn’t Armstrong’s voice be drowned out by the 10,000 thrust? The idiot jumps back and for the between LEM and Launch for his Argument

Well…

The ascent engine on the lunar module was by far the LEAST powerful engine (other than thrusters and ullage motors) involved in the whole Apollo/Saturn V hardware. Here are the engines in an Apollo/Saturn V stack:

F-1: Five used in the Saturn V first stage: 1.5 million pounds of thrust
J-2: Five used in the Saturn V second stage and one used in the Saturn V third stage: 232,2500 pounds of thrust (vacuum)
Apollo Service Propulsion System: (big engine in the tail of the Apollo Service Module): 20,500 pounds of thrust
Lunar Module Descent Engine: 10,125 pounds of thrust
Lunar Module Ascent Engine: 3,500 pounds of thrust

So the Ascent Engine was small, but it was enough. The ascent stage at liftoff weighed about 10,000 pounds on Earth, but in 1/6th lunar gravity it was less than 1,700 pounds, so the ascent stage jumped up pretty smartly as it left the lunar surface, as you can see from the videos posted here by others.

The ascent engine wasn’t very big. I tried to find a photo of a person standing next to an ascent engine, but couldn’t. However, this diagram of the ascent stage will give you some idea of how big the ascent engine was, compared to the astronauts. The ascent engine is the white thing in the middle.

As for his argument of why can you hear Armstrong over the noise of the thrusters?

Umm Sound needs a medium to transfer sound waves. The moon is a vacuum??


Did I miss anything??


Here is the Five part series referred to (in part) above.




 
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You dundee and others are the bullies here not wanting to listen to any evidence from ones that believe A11 was a hoax .
Hey where did my post go?
And I just posted @the kansas craft thread now its not there ...is this a forum or a blog? Delieting posts that bother you now? Ah you would have to read a book that your afraid might prove you wrong .
Your wrong on radiation on the moon there is gamma rays that we do not get on earth ,I got a few yrs on you
 
The 1st real conspiracy claim came from western Austrailia. As that book states a seldom used tracking station out there was where the data transmitted came to the 1 tv station was allowed to be there and fed it live to the 30k people in station serviced on about 3 k sets
The tv station received around 150 to 300 calls stateing they saw a bottle rolling in front of the very frt of the shot, this was at 2am the author pointed out that it could have easily been from a b52 out there or satellite we in the US told at the time it was live . this is what started the inquirey. Although the UK was at the time the only people who could track a item as small as the lem near the moon , by radio telescope they wanted corodinates to do that but the US. declined per the book
 
Hey Mahomes,
No one is deleting anything, least of all me. I have no more editing power than you here. The only person who can do that is Leta, and she does NOT Delete, trust me I know as I have requested on occasion she delete one of my own posts and she won't. I know of only one post ever being deleted and that was after I begged as someone made a direct and unwarrented insult to my fathers memory. It took a lot begging on my part but it was eventually removed as dad was an old Aussie digger and no longer here to defend himself. Worst case a post gets moved to the Flaming Cesspool thread if it breaks forum rules. I know she believes we should take responsibility for what we say in anger as well as in peace so No deleting or censoring here I can assure you. Leta's standards on that are beyond question.

May I suggest it may be browser settings?? Or getting confused with multi tabs being open? I do that occasionally.

Thank you for posting your thoughts from the book. It is early AM here and I have just woken up for a visit to the little room.
However I assure you I will have a look at your claims a bit later once I am up and running for the day.
Thanks again for posting.
Cheers.
Dundee
 
OK Mahomas,
Thanks again for posting. I am at work and a bit rushed so if I have made any errors I apologize, and by all means point them out.
You made several points there.


The Transmission came from a seldom used tracking station in Westren Australia.
I think you are saying the transmissions were faked from a B2 or a sattelite??
The UK were the only people capable of relaying the Apollo 11 Landing.
And something about a coke Bottle being visible??

OK so in order.
As far as I am aware the only radio telescope in Western Australia is Murchison but that was founded in 2009.
I am not aware of any in operation in 1969 unless they were perhaps clubs or hobbyists. Happy to be corrected on this though.
And if as you claim the only telescopes capable of receiving the transmissions, what is the tracking station you say was pointing at the B52 or Satellite? Also (see later in post) As far as I have been able to research Parks in NSW was the primary receiver for the Southern Hemisphere'
I am an ex Telstra tech (Australia's primary Telecommunications company) so I know a lot of major trunking went across the to relay stations in WA via underground cable. Is this what you are referring to.
But in short, I don't think WA had a decent radio telescope in 1969, little known or otherwise.
Can you provide more details and I will have a hunt?

Transmitting from a B52 or Satellite?
I am not sure what you are implying here, if the transmission was faked and sent from a Satellite or B52, it would either have to be a recording on board, a live feed from a stage somewhere, or a recording transmitted from earth to the B52 or Satellite, than relayed to the radio telescope in WA we cant yet prove existed.
I can't de-bunk a myth. All of the above go to the fake studio/ Hollywood style set. However all the footage and points made, the gravity, dust, lack of stars, the light v dark etc etc have been able to proven without question they happened on the moon.
So i guess then, show me the footage of the sound stage and ill have a look?
Other than that I see no evidence it was relayed from a Plane or Satellite via a non existent relay station...
But as away, happy to be corrected or proven wrong.

The UK was the only place capable of relaying the Apollo Transmissions,

Well, that's not true...
As near as I can tell here are the Telescopes capable of this in the UK
 
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That is not a fair thing to say about us Mahomes. With all of due respect to you... Fair play but sore losing!

Please remember that it takes an entire internet of those who enjoy calling Nasa a liar to from what is known as mob pressure. This pressure sadly falls upon youths and it hurts education and history. Get a Moon-landing denier alone and it is reduced to this...

You dundee and others are the bullies here not wanting to listen to any evidence from ones that believe A11 was a hoax .
 
UK Telescopes in 1969

Lovell Telescope, Jodrell Banks 76.2m , 53.2369° N, 2.3075° W
Mark 2 , Jodrell Banks 66.4m , 53.2369° N, 2.3075° W

The Merlin Array was not established until 1975
Ryle was not completed until 1971
Both of the Arcminute Microkelvin Imager arrays were not active untile 2004 and 2007
Bayfordbury Observatory, built in 1969 but I think only had an optical device then

However...
Lovell Banks would be a likely candidate at 76m
But parks was well and truly capable of this at 64 meters.

I am nothing more than a (very) amateur Astronomer, but here is why I think Parks was chosen over the UK sites.
If you look at this you will see some interesting information...


OK a bit of a quick calculaor play and you can see by the diagram the lunar orbit is angles 28.54 below and above the equatorial plane.

The Telescope at Parks lat long is 32.9980° S, 148.2626° E
That places Australia 4 degrees of perfect for the Moon walk.

Where as Lovell is 53.2369° N, 2.3075° W 25 degrees out of alignment.
Also, I am no planetary orbit expert but if you read the comments by the folks at Parks, Armstrong's Moon walk was scheduled for when the moon was overhead, and if my calculations are correct (and they well may be not correct :) ) that puts it almost literally overhead.....

But it almost did not happen, read the following...
The important points are in RED.


In late 1968 NASA had asked for Parkes to be used in the Apollo 11 mission. The giant telescope would be the prime receiving station for the reception of telemetry and TV from the surface of the Moon. Using it also provided extra gain in signal strength from the Moon. This meant that during the tightly scheduled first moonwalk the astronauts would not have to spend time setting up a large antenna to get the necessary signal strength.

At 6:17 a.m. (AEST) on 21 July, astronauts Neil Armstrong and Edwin (Buzz) Aldrin landed their LM, Eagle, on the Sea of Tranquillity. It was still some seven hours before the Moon would have risen high enough to be seen from Parkes.

The schedule required the astronauts to rest before attempting the moonwalk, by which time the Moon would have been high overhead at Parkes. However, Armstrong departed from the original plan, opting for an immediate moonwalk instead. To the astronomers at Parkes, it looked as though the moonwalk would be all over before the Moon even rose over Parkes. However, it took the astronauts such a long time to don their spacesuits and depressurize the LM cabin that as they left the module the Moon was just rising over Parkes. It seemed as though they would get the signals after all


Also the weather at the time was bad and the wind exceeded the maximum speed to maneuver the dish, so they almost couldn't do it because of that. However at the last minute they risked it and all was well. Just :)


So it seems to me that the choice to use Parkes Over a UK site was purely logistical.
The plane put the Moon almost dead over head of Parks at the projected moon walk time.
Again I am no astronomer but if the moon is over head at -32 degrees south, its not going to be visible at 53 degrees north.
So the UK would not have been able to point there dish at the moon had they been invited too.

Again, happy to be corrected.

Gamma Rays on the Moon
I never said there was no Harmful radiation on the moon, quite the contrary. I gave you the measured levels.
And it seems those levels may not have been as harmless as once thought.


As for the coke can thing...I will come back to it, I promise.
Got to get some work done fist though :)
 
I want to clarify one point, above I said...
The plane put the Moon almost dead over head of Parks at the projected moon walk time.
Remember that was the projected time, in reality Armstrong opted to go early so the moon had just risen.
So I realize the moon was not high overhead as expected.