So why is no one bothered ?

H

HAL

Guest
Ok, so here is a hypothetical.

Young Sam, who is into ornithology, happens to be walking through a forest. He hears an unusual bird call. Looking up he is amazes to see a Greater Stripped Grub Gobbler.

Wow, thinks Sam, These are usually only found in Caracas. And here is one in Utah. Must tell the guys'.

So he goes on the web, tells his fellow bird watchers about it. No one believes him. But within a week the forest is crawling with people carrying binoculars. Someone else gets a glimpse of the bird and next thing the local college has set up a base camp and is holding 24 hour watches to find out if it is really true.

But if Sam saw a ufo, nothing would happen.

Yet the appearance of a real unmistakable ufo is surely of greater importance to the Nation than a bird.

So here is my question.

Why are there no overarching attempts to track down ufo ? And you have to admit it, there isn't really anything. People submit their sighting reports to organisations like MUFON, and these reports later emerge in a monthly magazine or on the web. And, as far as can be ascertained, that is it.

Why isn't there a corps of 'observers' out there in the areas where ufo reports are most prevalent. People paid to just stay there for, a week at a time, in shifts covering 24 hours, just waiting. Using the best technology they can be provided with to record anything that comes along. Every week a new crew should take over so that the watchers don't get jaded.

But it doesn't happen. Something hits the news for a few days (Stevensville) and then just disappears.

Yet surely the apparent appearance of an object the size of a football field should merit more official attention.

Think about it, next to Jesus suddenly appearing on the Senate floor, what could be of more existential importance than following up reported appearance of vehicles from some place else.

I could never work out why there is this total apathy.

Your views.
 
D

Dundee

Guest
Not Apathy at all. The grub gobbler probly has a nest near bye and lives there. ET sightings are fleeting and transient for the most part so most likely gone by the time anyone travels there. And your assumption people don't gather and look is incorrect. I. Have the CE5 app on my phone and I can tell there are a lot of ufo buffs in close proximity to me and there is an event being organized in the dandenongs as we speak. Folks are gathering and looking all the time. People camp out near places like area 51 all the time.
So why do you say people don't go looking? Haw did you conclude that
 
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Dundee

Guest
Just checked CE5. There are 100 people within a 57mile radius of my location that I can directly message. I missed an event close to me two weeks ago because I wasn't using it right. I was chatting to someone last week and were going to make a point of saying hi in person at the next event. Lots going on and that's just one app. Plenty of groups etc if you care to look
 
H

HAL

Guest
..So why do you say people don't go looking? Haw did you conclude that..

I'm not talking about random skywatch sessions by people. I mean continuous 24 hr every day observation by an organisation dedicated to the task.
 
D

Dundee

Guest
..So why do you say people don't go looking? Haw did you conclude that..

I'm not talking about random skywatch sessions by people. I mean continuous 24 hr every day observation by an organisation dedicated to the task.
It's called Seti, your splitting hairs HAL. What's the difference between mufon and international bird watchers. Is there a dedicated government organization for trout fishing? No but a million private groups. I dunno what your getting at. Lots of valid interest groups are not 24x7.
 
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Dundee

Guest
The second thing is who would fund it. Seti has often had funding trouble. Lots of valid scientific pursuits don't get funded for lots of reasons. So something like ufo research has no chance until we have a tangie threat
 
H

HAL

Guest
...Is there a dedicated government organization for trout fishing? No but a million private groups. I dunno what your getting at. Lots of valid interest groups are not 24x7...

You still don't get the point.

Things like trout fishing are really of no relevance to anyone ;except maybe trout.

But if there are visiting objects from 'Out There' (or maybe even from within) then it is second only to someone being able to prove that God actually exists. And there is more circumstantial evidence for ufo than there is for God.

SETI is really no use for the immediate tracking of objects. They tend to gather Terabytes of info from radio telescopes, then eventually someone runs it through a computer looking for anomalies. By then the objects are long gone.

So, I'm not talking about valid interest groups. People who may show up occasionally on some mountain top and share a beer then go back home until the next meeting. I'm talking about a proper observation system. people watching ALL the time in areas where the objects have been reported most regularly.

Something like The Observer Corps of WWII.

It could be done. Hell, there are enough folks sitting around with nothing useful to do. They could be recruited to the cause.

But then you do come up against the usual problem. The honesty of the observer. One joker in the pack can invalidate years of work.

A question I have to ask, and please do not be offended by me being direct.

Do you actually realise just how serious it would be if it was shown beyond all reasonable doubt that there are objects appearing here that come from some place else.

That it would be of existential importance to us all for a number of reasons ?

HAL
 
D

Dundee

Guest
Yes I am well aware of the significance and impact. When I went through uni the first time I had a mate who was an ordained Mormon priest. We talked often about this stuff. He pointed out a whole bunch of places in the Bible that would put egg on the face of religion should ET come to tea.
But what your suggesting is just not practical. As I said who would fund it.
Who would pay for the equipment and infrastructure. Who would maintain it. Who would govern it. Most times you me and Doc can't agree on anything much less the running of an international effort like that. It's just not viable. And there are currently way to many skeptical people who would call it a waste of money. It is not lack of interest or understanding of the implications of ET. It would first take an open acknowledgement from the government of the existence of ET as a threat. Then you might have a chance
 
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Dr Wu

Guest
I agree with Dundee in that it's a matter of money and practicality. 99% of the people who look for cryptids, ufos, ghosts, whatever have day jobs and lives. There have been ongoing investigations funded by various groups like Bigelow's organization but even there people have their lives to live. For any group to spend all their waking hours looking for ufos would require a good deal of support with no guarantee of a payoff or income coming in. It's that simple regarding private groups. Bigelow spent years and millions doing this and he has not revealed any ufo truths....so odds are he found nothing to make him continue..at least at this time.
Now...govt groups is another matter. And I think there have been continued efforts over the years to hunt for ufos. But politics and admins change so the efforts were probably on and off at times.
 
H

HAL

Guest
So really what you are both saying, and apparently agree on, is that ufo as we know them, simply do not exist as physical entities.

You must be saying this as any other options require the acceptance by authorities that they do exist. And that takes us back to the position od 'what could be more important to the Human Race as knowing that there are other beings out there ? And who can guess at what agenda they may have'.

I am not expecting this monitoring scheme to be done for free. Government or science establishments would have to fund it.

If they can pay people to sit in towers in forests watching for fires, I'm sure they could fund something like this.

...Bigelow spent years and millions doing this and he has not revealed any ufo truths....so odds are he found nothing to make him continue..at least at this time...


Which seems to suggest that there is nothing there to find

Would you not agree ?
 
D

Dr Wu

Guest
So really what you are both saying, and apparently agree on, is that ufo as we know them, simply do not exist as physical entities.

You must be saying this as any other options require the acceptance by authorities that they do exist. And that takes us back to the position od 'what could be more important to the Human Race as knowing that there are other beings out there ? And who can guess at what agenda they may have'.

I am not expecting this monitoring scheme to be done for free. Government or science establishments would have to fund it.

If they can pay people to sit in towers in forests watching for fires, I'm sure they could fund something like this.

...Bigelow spent years and millions doing this and he has not revealed any ufo truths....so odds are he found nothing to make him continue..at least at this time...


Which seems to suggest that there is nothing there to find

Would you not agree ?
I think you are jumping to conclusions with out enough to go on.
It took science many decades and even more in some cases to discover basic facts about nature and the universe/reality. I see no reason to assume we can figure out the ufo enigma any quicker just because our science is better than in the past.
There is no doubt in my mind that the 'phenomenon' exists as a real entity on several different levels but we just haven't been able to catch it redhanded so to speak. Our knowlegde and abilities are still limited .
Two examples are gravity and electricity...we know they exist because of the effects they produce but we still don't completely understand them on all levels. Time is another one...it seems apparent to all of us and is part of our physics, etc yet can you show it to me or where it comes from ,etc? Yet we believe it exists.
Another thing is that the ufo phenom is active and moves around since we think it is intelligent in origin. Therefore we can't set up equipment easily so we can observe it and quantify it. Other phenomena appear at regular intervals or are always around for us to work on them and examine but the ufo enigma is not stationary. It's gone by the time we get there to observe and measure it.
 
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Dr Wu

Guest
As a side note: In Forbidden Science, Dr J Vallee's first book in that series, he tells a story about a govt. agent who told him that the US govt. has set up multiple scientific observation sites in so called hot spots over the years to try and capture data on the phenomenon . He asked for access to the data or locations and was denied. If we are to believe this man who spoke to Dr Vallee it becomes obvious that the govt. has been working on this for a long time. They could very well know something important or no more than we do.
 
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Dundee

Guest
Whatever UFOs are. ET, interdimencianal or Man made the fact that they are buzzing our cities and military bases. You can bet your last dollar there are secret government agencies doing just that. Take tic tac as an example. If hypothetically the US government is not behind that. It is inconceivable that there would not be some departments somewhere monitoring this. If it was not us then there would have been a room somewhere full of generals and admirals having seizures.
And BTW I do believe that at least some of the UFOs could be ET and it is well worth researching. Why else would I have CE5 on my phone and sleep outside watching the sky
 
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NeoMk

Guest
Imo people are afraid of getting ridiculoued . Years of movies and TV shows had made an already materialistic society to think of UFOs as something from fiction.
 
D

Dr Wu

Guest
Welcome Neo....
Dr Vallee once called it the 'giggle factor' where people were ashamed or afraid to bring up ufos in fear that they would be made fun of. There's probably some truth to that.
I'm not sure tv and film have caused ridicule. I would argue that it has brought the attention of aliens and ufos to the public albeit not always in a good light. I have read a great deal of sci-fi for over 40 years and it hasn't denigrated the phenomenon imho.
What do you think 'materialism' has done or problems created regarding the ufo enigma...?
 
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D

Dundee

Guest
Welcome aboard Neo.
Good to have you here.
I think you and Doc are both right. While TV has certainly contributed to a certain amount of public awareness on the subject there are cartoons and movies that make light of the subject. Tinfoil hats and Mars attacks always make us laugh.
 
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D

Dr Wu

Guest
Not about why no one is bothered but an old piece that is worth reading and digesting....
http://rawilsonfans.de/en/has-contact-already-been-made/
"I propose to offer a different model for the UFO experience, treating it as the experience of a human nervous system. I wish us to consider the UFO-human system as a synergetic whole which is (see the definition of synergy in your dictionary) greater than the sum of its parts. This may seem a remarkable approach at first, but it is merely looking at the UFO experience in the holistic manner of Relativity theory, quantum mechanics, Gestalt psychology, General Systems Theory, ecology and similar non-elementalistic sciences."
 
D

Dundee

Guest
Not about why no one is bothered but an old piece that is worth reading and digesting....
http://rawilsonfans.de/en/has-contact-already-been-made/
"I propose to offer a different model for the UFO experience, treating it as the experience of a human nervous system. I wish us to consider the UFO-human system as a synergetic whole which is (see the definition of synergy in your dictionary) greater than the sum of its parts. This may seem a remarkable approach at first, but it is merely looking at the UFO experience in the holistic manner of Relativity theory, quantum mechanics, Gestalt psychology, General Systems Theory, ecology and similar non-elementalistic sciences."
I hope that some poor university shareholders did not pay for a grant for that load of bollux. He ignores physical evidence. His explanation regarding enterpretation of radar evidence is just silly. And no standard design, is he on lsd himself. Most sightings I nave heard of are either roughly saucer shaped! Cigar shaped or triangular. Saying there is no common description is like saying planes have no common description because of the different designs. He seems to me to be constructing his own explanation based on handy snippets and name dropping.

In the words of Adam Savage.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.