The plight of the Man who would go his own way.

H

HAL

Guest
Way back in the day, they were called 'bachelors'. And viewed with some suspicion. Mostly quite undeserved.

Today, these same people have been hijacked by what is known as MGTOW. Or 'Men Going Their Own Way'.
And the term has become one that causes even vicars to swear.

Let me tell you a story.

In a universe not a million light years from here, there was a man who has taken a long, hard look at life, and come to a few conclusions. So he posted a thread on a site that shall remain anonymous. And he wrote something similar to this.

Let us suppose I am a young man, single, successful in my work, happy as I am. I do not wish to have a steady girlfriend. And I have no wish to marry.

But I am not a misogynist I do like the company of women. But when one wants female company, this is often interpreted by the woman to be 'hitting' on her. or a precursor to either a long term relationship, or a one-night stand.

So how to get around the problem ?

I could get in touch with an agency and hire an escort. but I only want to share a pizza and a bit of conversation. And an escort would come very expensive.

But I do now a woman whom I get along well with. A sort of acquaintance.

Next time we meet I propose to suggest to her that she joins me for a pizza and a bottle of wine. It is not a date. I would just like the pleasure of her company for this meal.
I will, of course, be paying. And after the meal I will get her a taxi to wherever she wishes to go. I have some other things I have planned for later in the evening.
There are no strings attached, no obligations.

So, folks, what is so wrong with that ?

The so-called MGTOW reasoning will follow later if you would like to follow my thinking on this subject.

HAL.
 
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H

HAL

Guest
And websites.

But you misunderstand.

I can see where you are coming from, and if it was a regular thing then it could be described as a sugar daddy transaction. But as a one off?

How would you go about it if you were a single girl who just wanted to share a meal with a man ?

Or do you subscribe to the belief that a man and woman can't be just fiends as sex always gets in the way ?
 

LETA

4☆babbler
Staff
I don't see anything wrong with it. Seems like you just want to have the pleasure of female company.
 
H

HAL

Guest
Trying to juggle three threads at the same time here.

It is a free lunch as the only thing given by the girl is her company, no obligations.

But here is where it got heavy.

I continued the theme by pointing out that, back in the day, the norm was for young men to leave school, get a job, meet some nice girl and get married. Then a couple of kids.

The girls were advised by their mothers to find a nice young man with prospects and marry him. Provide the kids and they would all live happily ever after. Jack and Jill become Darby and Joan, and they die.

His obligation was to go to work, be the breadwinner, provide shelter and protection for the family stop any sowing of wild oats etc. Be tied to this woman for ever.

She had to keep house, provide meals, raise the kids while he was at work, not have sex with anyone else. Support him, right or wrong.
Accept that he may wish to spend his evenings at the pub.

(are we still on the same page ?)
 
H

HAL

Guest
Good, so, before we progress, a question.

What is the prime imperative of all living things ?
 

LETA

4☆babbler
Staff
I'm about to bounce, but please continue your presentation. We are interested. The prime imperative? You mean like survival and reproduction?
 
H

HAL

Guest
The prime imperative is to reproduce.
Everything from a tree to a ptarmigan has but one true goal, and that is to produce a copy of itself to propagate the species.
And it is genetically programmed into everything. And this genetic programming along with it's consequences will be the subject of our next episode.

To be continued when I return from cooking.

(Am I henpecked, a 'modern Man' or slightly effete ? For you all to decide.)

Back soon.

HAL
 
H

HAL

Guest
So, Mankind (and Womankind)are doomed to follow the genetic program.

Once women reach breeding age, they are driven to have a child. Men just want to get inside a pair of knickers, and they don't really want to know about all the kid and marriage stuff. Except they see it as a way of becoming independent of their mothers while still having the laundry and the cooking done for them. And the idea of their own on-demand sex partner has it's appeal.

So the bargain is struck.

I will vow to stay with you, look after you, provide for you and any children, forsaking all others only have sex with you, Not even consider looking lustfully at another woman.

I will vow to look after the home while you are out at work. Raise any children, do the laundry, cook the meals and not have sex with any other man.

(And I now pronounce thee man and wife).

And all may go well until the kids reach their late teens. By then the couple have done their bit for passing on the genes. They have lost the 'urges'. and each is seeing the not so delightful side of the other.

At this point they should really separate. But they can't afford to. Acrimony may set in. Discontent at least.
And divorce may follow. But divorce is a very destructive thing. Both are separate from each other but still tied in many ways. They will have lost everything they hoped for at the beginning of life's adventure. They may be quite disillusioned and bitter.

They have to start again.

We are told 'That's how it goes. What did you expect ? A Rose garden ?

However, there is another way.
 
H

Horsa

Guest
So, Mankind (and Womankind)are doomed to follow the genetic program.

Once women reach breeding age, they are driven to have a child. Men just want to get inside a pair of knickers, and they don't really want to know about all the kid and marriage stuff. Except they see it as a way of becoming independent of their mothers while still having the laundry and the cooking done for them. And the idea of their own on-demand sex partner has it's appeal.

So the bargain is struck.

I will vow to stay with you, look after you, provide for you and any children, forsaking all others only have sex with you, Not even consider looking lustfully at another woman.

I will vow to look after the home while you are out at work. Raise any children, do the laundry, cook the meals and not have sex with any other man.

(And I now pronounce thee man and wife).

And all may go well until the kids reach their late teens. By then the couple have done their bit for passing on the genes. They have lost the 'urges'. and each is seeing the not so delightful side of the other.

At this point they should really separate. But they can't afford to. Acrimony may set in. Discontent at least.
And divorce may follow. But divorce is a very destructive thing. Both are separate from each other but still tied in many ways. They will have lost everything they hoped for at the beginning of life's adventure. They may be quite disillusioned and bitter.

They have to start again.

We are told 'That's how it goes. What did you expect ? A Rose garden ?

However, there is another way.
I'm very sorry to disappoint you but this isn't always the case. Women don't always have just their looks, men & intimacy & bedroom activities on their mind in the same way as men don't.

I definitely don't just think about my looks, men & bedroom activities. In fact out of these I only think about my looks when I need to. I think about what I'm going to wear, how I'm going to do my hair, nails & make-up & then go on to thinking about other things like work & books. I work in heritage preservation where I'm involved in the history, art & craft side. I think about horses & other animals. I paint, knit & quilt as part of my job. I have art history, pottery, marbling, ceramic & glass painting classes at work. I also teach these skills as part of my job. I go to book-club at work & I'm in the choir at work. At least I did all this until lockdown came in. I'm an archivist at work. Since lockdown I've only continued with the painting, knitting & quilting part of my job. I got some online archiving training & research tasks set for the historic part of my job. Then I was set a big research & report-writing task which was to use all the resources I have except my own head to write a report on the evolution of the horse from eohippus to equus przewalski & equus caballus & humankinds relationship with the horse through time. I've got more home-work to do after that.
 
H

HAL

Guest
You have to remember that I am generalising.

You do seem to have an interesting array of things to keep you busy. I have about five, and that is probably four too many.

I will get on to the main point, the one that caused all the trouble shortly. And you will probably find that you are more in agreement than you suspect at the moment.
Also consider that I don't know what stage of life you are at. I.e. I don't know how old you are etc. I won't ask, because I was told that to do so is considered trolling.

So I have to say that I am looking at things through a retrospective lens. Sort of 20/20 hindsight. 'If I knew then what I know now'.
 
H

Horsa

Guest
You have to remember that I am generalising.

You do seem to have an interesting array of things to keep you busy. I have about five, and that is probably four too many.

I will get on to the main point, the one that caused all the trouble shortly. And you will probably find that you are more in agreement than you suspect at the moment.
Also consider that I don't know what stage of life you are at. I.e. I don't know how old you are etc. I won't ask, because I was told that to do so is considered trolling.

So I have to say that I am looking at things through a retrospective lens. Sort of 20/20 hindsight. 'If I knew then what I know now'.
O.K.

I do. I also think about music. I love both listening to music & singing. 5 things to keep you busy is good.

O.K. I want you to get to the main point.

I know what you meant by what stage of life I'm at. I'm 38 & didn't mind you asking. I wouldn't say asking a ladies age was trolling.

O.K. Thank you very much.
 
H

HAL

Guest
Ok, so here we go.

The point is that, referring to my earlier posts,

Life doesn't have to be that way.

But you need to have a clear-eyed vision of what does usually happen.

As the Fleetwood Mac song says, 'You can go your own way'.

But you have to start early. Back in your teens you have to look around and observe what is happening to the people around you. The couples.
Are they happy know ? have they been together long ? Has either one had to change their way of life because of the marriage ?

How many are already divorced ?

Why did they break up ?

By change their way of life I mean things like' was he down the pub every night and going to football matches with his mates every weekend ? Did he like to go and spend hours by a river fishing. Were his pursuits generally solitary ?
Same for the girl. Was she independent ? or always at her mums house (if she had her own flat). Did she like to go night clubbing. Or maybe she liked to go jogging, maybe even mountain climbing.

Do they share the interests, or has one or both had to give up what they liked to maintain marital harmony ?
Does she miss these things ?

Do they look like they will last, or does a divorce look imminent ?

And if that happens, how will the situation resolve itself with regards to their futures ?

And, if you do this when you are young, you may see that the benefits of being married can be attained without tying yourself to someone else for life.

You can do your own cooking, or eat out.
Sex is obtainable these days from willing parties without the stigma that used to be attached to 'one night stands'. And there are always what are euphemistically called (F*** Buddies). People who meet up for a night's pleasure every now and then, no strings attached.
No friends ? Maybe a nice working girl .

Laundry ? do your own.

Women have the same options these days. But they probably have to be more discerning than men.

You see, the problem with the traditional relationship is that when it crashes, and most do (in fact eight out of ten of the couples I know are divorced) everyone gets burned. It is a catastrophe.

But one can avoid it.

Just go your own way.

There is also an intelligence aspect. The clever, thoughtful people are the ones who will see all this anyway. They will consider what 'treasure' they are about to invest, and wonder if it is really worth it.

It is the folk lower down. The average Joe and Jane who meet up, get married, have kids, then realise that they really have nothing more to share. But now it's too late. The have to stick together as they both have too much to lose if they part.

And 20/20 hindsight is of no value whatsoever.
 
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H

HAL

Guest
Horsa,

I don't know where you are,

But if you can, go onto BBC IPlayer and call up 'The State of the Nation'.

It is a short series of sketches, each about twelve minutes long.

I think you'll like them.