The plight of the Man who would go his own way.

HAL said:
Ok, so here we go.

The point is that, referring to my earlier posts,

Life doesn't have to be that way.

But you need to have a clear-eyed vision of what does usually happen.

As the Fleetwood Mac song says, 'You can go your own way'.

But you have to start early. Back in your teens you have to look around and observe what is happening to the people around you. The couples.
Are they happy know ? have they been together long ? Has either one had to change their way of life because of the marriage ?

How many are already divorced ?

Why did they break up ?

By change their way of life I mean things like' was he down the pub every night and going to football matches with his mates every weekend ? Did he like to go and spend hours by a river fishing. Were his pursuits generally solitary ?
Same for the girl. Was she independent ? or always at her mums house (if she had her own flat). Did she like to go night clubbing. Or maybe she liked to go jogging, maybe even mountain climbing.

Do they share the interests, or has one or both had to give up what they liked to maintain marital harmony ?
Does she miss these things ?

Do they look like they will last, or does a divorce look imminent ?

And if that happens, how will the situation resolve itself with regards to their futures ?

And, if you do this when you are young, you may see that the benefits of being married can be attained without tying yourself to someone else for life.

You can do your own cooking, or eat out.
Sex is obtainable these days from willing parties without the stigma that used to be attached to 'one night stands'. And there are always what are euphemistically called (F*** Buddies). People who meet up for a night's pleasure every now and then, no strings attached.
No friends ? Maybe a nice working girl .

Laundry ? do your own.

Women have the same options these days. But they probably have to be more discerning than men.

You see, the problem with the traditional relationship is that when it crashes, and most do (in fact eight out of ten of the couples I know are divorced) everyone gets burned. It is a catastrophe.

But one can avoid it.

Just go your own way.

There is also an intelligence aspect. The clever, thoughtful people are the ones who will see all this anyway. They will consider what 'treasure' they are about to invest, and wonder if it is really worth it.

It is the folk lower down. The average Joe and Jane who meet up, get married, have kids, then realise that they really have nothing more to share. But now it's too late. The have to stick together as they both have too much to lose if they part.

And 20/20 hindsight is of no value whatsoever.
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I agree.

I don't think about the 3 letter S word. I had a boyfriend once who tried to get too intimate too soon. My cousin introduced us. He didn't want to have conversation or fun. I didn't want a sing-song either. He embarrassed me in front of my parents by undoing my wrap-over skirt so gently I couldn't feel it until it started unravelling so I told him to get out. I haven't had a boyfriend since. I know what I'm looking for in a man & I'm quite picky.
 
HAL said:
Horsa,

I don't know where you are,

But if you can, go onto BBC IPlayer and call up 'The State of the Nation'.

It is a short series of sketches, each about twelve minutes long.

I think you'll like them.
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Hal, I'm in Britain.

Thank you very much. I'll have a look.
 
I dont think there's anything wrong with casual relationships as long as both parties are in that frame of mind.
And I think being a batchelor and not wanting to marry is fine if that is your thing. I know several men who are still unmarried but have had relationships over the years.
I'm not really sure what you are getting at or what this has to do with MGTOW.
 
I'm anxiously waiting for the part where HAL unveils his plan to move us all down to Guyana with him. j/k :p
 
Dr Wu said:
I dont think there's anything wrong with casual relationships as long as both parties are in that frame of mind.
And I think being a batchelor and not wanting to marry is fine if that is your thing. I know several men who are still unmarried but have had relationships over the years.
I'm not really sure what you are getting at or what this has to do with MGTOW.
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I agree.
 
What does it have to do with MGTOW !

Well, My expulsion from Alien Hub was predicated on me apparently trying to start a cult. Maybe even trying to corrupt youth.

It seems that suggesting that following the social relationship form we have always done i.e. marriage, is not the only acceptable route to take, and to suggest that a man (or woman) has no need in the modern world to do this is tantamount to heresy.
It has always saddened me to see the collapse of so many partnerships. And I have always wondered why it repeats itself with every generation. Why people just can't take more care in selecting their life partner; or if a life partner is even necessary. Then I realised that it was all built into us. A chemical code that had the sole purpose of propagating the species. And that unless a deliberate effort was made by each individual to override millennia of programing, it would go on.

There are classes in some schools that, when the students are approaching the time to leave and go join the world as individuals, spend time telling them about the expectations of society. About the responsibilities of marriage, the home etc. But nothing about the fact that most of them will crash out of their first marriage.
There should be at least a couple of lectures to explain that you can avoid the problem. No need to follow the herd.

Dr Wu is actually making my point for me. The bachelors he refers to are simply men going their own way.

They are not anti-social, anti women. Not misogynists. They have just decided to opt for a different lifestyle.
And they will not have to make the decision to leave a bad marriage with all the problems and bitterness that incurs. The responsibility for their failure of success is entirely on their own heads. The choices they make are entirely up to them.

And the above view was enough to get me banned from a website.

By the way, from what I have seen the MGTOW sites are indeed full of woman haters. Usually men who have lost a lot in a divorce and still recovering from the burns. Bitter people. Some of whom are verging on being very dangerous.

Not at all what I am suggesting.

Do I practice what I am preaching ? No, of course not. I am far too old. And it is much too late.

HAL.
 
Hal I am a little confused. Your initial description was indeed some what transactional. But so long as it is consentual and one is taking advantage over another then that's OK too. But you seem to have jumped from a casual meal to the worse that a relationship can bring. I have never detailed my breakup here except for the occasional emotional slip.
But I went through hell and back for years before I was dumped. And the separation was circumstances unpleasant. I have chosen not to be bitter. It is approaching five years now. I came from a really good area and a house now values at 3/4 of a million. Good car lots of stuff etc. To renting a dumpy little house in my towns 2nd shittiest suburb. I lost my once best friend of 40 years (use your imagination why) I drive a crappy old diesel hilux fromm the early 2000s. But I have chosen not to be bitter.
I live with two of my four adult sons.
I have a lot to be bitter about, but mostly I am just a little lonely. I have chosen now to remain single as the one or two people I really care for are impossible.
But you need not be bitter. What you describe above that you were accused of starting cult for. There are groups for all out there catering for all tastes and desires from lunch to intimate and everything in between.

Your words above are very poetic, but I am confused as to the point you are trying to make.
 
If you choose to think about it a certain way you can make this the best time of your life. You have more choices now than ever. Your hobbies. Your kids if you have them. Traveling if you can afford it. Company, casual, paid for with no strings or another relationship. These could be good years of freedom if you choose.
 
..These could be good years of freedom if you choose...

Yes, that is the whole point; choice.

Just going out, I'll come back to it later today.

LETA,

So what is this Guyana business ?
 
I just caught on that I think the Guyana reference refers to the old Jim Jones cult thing that ended up with death in Gyuana...
so HAL is starting a cult....?
o_O
 
Hi Wu,

I take it that you were among the folks on the other site that didn't get time to read the actual post that caused all the trouble for me. The boss was pretty damn quick in removing it.

Basically I was accused of heresy.

Proper people know that there is only one way to go through life. The one the church insists on (or rather it did when it had the power) and that is you get married, be faithful to your spouse. Don't covert the neighbour's ass etc. Then you die and go to Heaven.
Of course, many marriages doesn't last very long for a variety of reasons. But back in the day, the folks had to put up with it. Divorce was hard to come by and brought with it a sense of failure and shame. Didn't matter what the problems were.

Thing is, the option was to live as a bachelor.(or spinster). Both these options carried some form of negative cache. If you were female you were probably a witch, if male probably homosexual. The church was a bit uncomfortable with that one.

So, all I suggested was that the option for living alone be considered at late school level. By that age, the kids were able to understand what was going on and why couples didn't last. And the effects of the break ups; both financial and psychological.

I was suggesting that the kids, maybe in their last few week at school, were shown that it was ok not to form a partnership. That there really was no need to get hitched simply to have access to (theoretically) unlimited sex with someone who would be honour bound to accept the situation. Even if it did mean you would have to wash your own cloths and do your own cooking. After all, you can't marry your mother; well, not in the UK.

And this applies to both girls and boys. It may be a lonelier existence, but it doesn't need to be. And it can save a lot of trouble in the future. Do you want to work at a relationship for the best part of your life only to find out that one of you is unfaithful or totally unsuitable for you. That you did in fact make a mistake. A mistake that it is now going to cost you most of what you worked for. And time is moving on.

This applies to both sexes. I only know two people who are still married to their first partner, and one of them wishes he hadn't.

But, by doing this I am denying the wish of society, and deep down, the church.

HAL, Heretic. Damn glad we don't still have the Holy Roman Inquisition.

Wait ! do I hear a knock at the door ? It's the Inquisition. But I'm not expecting them.

(No one expects the Inquisition)

So, Dundee, Yes, it may seem transnational. But you yourself point out the positive aspects.

The trick is to see them BEFORE getting attached.

You need a plan.

(I didn't)

HAL.
 
Dundee,

..What you describe above that you were accused of starting cult for. There are groups for all out there catering for all tastes and desires from lunch to intimate and everything in between...

That is what I want to avoid. people see the stuff on the net by groups like MGTOW and INCEL and get the wrong impression.

INCEL are a bunch of woman hating losers. A sort of reverse Women's Lib.

I only want people to realise the choice is there.
 
HAL said:
Dundee,

..What you describe above that you were accused of starting cult for. There are groups for all out there catering for all tastes and desires from lunch to intimate and everything in between...

That is what I want to avoid. people see the stuff on the net by groups like MGTOW and INCEL and get the wrong impression.

INCEL are a bunch of woman hating losers. A sort of reverse Women's Lib.

I only want people to realise the choice is there.
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What makes you think that they don't already.
 
Like minded folks are drawn together. I am into motorsport, not many local motorsport events escape my notice.
I am hetrosexual, I notice a pretty girl, but not a good looking dude.
Most folks now about stuff, and if they don't initially, often the fallout from traumatic events provide an opportunity through councelling and so on. We tend to seek out the things we are drawn too.
The whole rebound relationship thing is well known and usually short lived.
Not all are sucetible to it though.
Darn sure I did not need it as a crutch to hold me up. :)
 
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