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Fish

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I think i want to spend some time in SPA for body massage, sona and stuff, just for fun.

Then on this December in the Christmas day i thought to take my family to Bali coz that is the only time my brother will have holidays, but my mother is not sure if she will be free on that day so i can't guarantee.

I like to discover indonesia for it's volcanic mountains, cultures, arts and it's ancient hindu temples and palace, most of the ppl in Indonesia was hindus one time ago, Islam is a recent thing.

How about y'all, got any ideas for fun, i could use your ideas lol
 

LETA

4☆babbler
Staff
Bali sounds fun and is very mellow.

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Fish

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Bali sounds fun and is very mellow.

thumbs-up-531x600.jpg
There are alot of ancient places you coule see in Bali, especially i like to see the gates of heaven its kind like the one in Japan also, both japan and Indonesia culture are made from hindu religion but their designs and arts are different using their way. And what the ancient hindu practice back then is different from the modern one today, especially the gods they worshipped were different.


Sorry idk how to add pictures
 
A

Aurora

Guest
These days I am gathering material for the outrageous cartoon segments that I mentioned around one million years ago as I have been held up in a number of ways that has all resulted in my experience. There is a delicate list that I have compiled of concept cartoon characters but attention to detail comes with this delicate pace and everyone is going to love this show. One of these characters has even moved on to an early storyboard draft.
 
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Fish

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Thought to take the train and travel to another state for a day and see around but my brother have my wallet, i left it in the car and he took it with him lol.
He has borrowed my laptop also, will return it back 2 months later so for now i am trying to love reading books.

I don't like looking at the smartphone's screen all the time, it's a pain to the eye.
 
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Dundee

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I have been to Bali maybe 7 times. I have a lovely family I have been helping out for...must be 15 - 20 years now. My ex and I send them money directly to their bank account, not through a charity, I don't trust them.
They have built a house in their village with our help. They are lovely people.
It was always funny going through customs going into Bali.
Most people fill their bags with stuff going home.
We used to fill our bags with stuff to take to them, coloring books, toys, fold up scooters, clothes, shoes, runners, laptops phones lol all sorts of stuff to take to them. Customs always freaked out and thought we were up to no good lol.

My advice to a first time Bali visitor is to pay for a driver, pick a private local one, not a Chinese employee of a company, Chinese there are corrupt bastards.
Pay him well, last time there that was about $50 or $60 AU per day.
He will pick you up at your hotel at 8:00 am and drive you all day and drop you back at 5 or 6 pm.
Forget the travel brochure. Talks to your driver and ask him to take you to the places he knows of.
I suggest you stay at the best hotel in the poorest area. If you do the Aussie tourist thing and stay in Cuta, you might as well stay at home.
If you hang with the poorer folks, you will get to see the real Bali.
Try not to haggle too much, Every $ you win means less food in their mouths.
They are beautiful people with a wonderful culture.
Enjoy your visit. I always have :)
 
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Fish

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I have been to Bali maybe 7 times. I have a lovely family I have been helping out for...must be 15 - 20 years now. My ex and I send them money directly to their bank account, not through a charity, I don't trust them.
They have built a house in their village with our help. They are lovely people.

I am baffled and i have so many questions..
U actually build a house with your bare hands? I've never seen anything like that, that like going back to stone age lol, that is illegal from where i'm from. And begging and asking money from ppl (unless u r a registered ngo) is also illegal here, they will send u to the welfare and if they find out that u r in a syndicate they will arrest u.

And can the locals speak English there and how did u met those ppl?


My advice to a first time Bali visitor is to pay for a driver, pick a private local one, not a Chinese employee of a company, Chinese there are corrupt bastards.
Pay him well, last time there that was about $50 or $60 AU per day.
That is almost the same amount i am paying to my tourist guide's driver, that could be him lol.


Talks to your driver and ask him to take you to the places he knows of.
I suggest you stay at the best hotel in the poore

Since i am bringing my family i will hire a tourist guide to do the guiding and everything except hotel, they have a schedule of the time and place they will take u and the activities u will do. Everything is listed.

The hotel i will try to take a luxury one because my family like class and comfortable stuff. Myself i don't mind, as long it's clean with no rats, cockroaches and fleas.
 
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Dundee

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Lol, reading your post I think you are in for a surprise fish :)
I am baffled and i have so many questions..
U actually build a house with your bare hands? I've never seen anything like that, that like going back to stone age lol, that is illegal from where i'm from. And begging and asking money from ppl (unless u r a registered ngo) is also illegal here, they will send u to the welfare and if they find out that u r in a syndicate they will arrest u.

And can the locals speak English there and how did u met those ppl?
No I did not help build it with my bare hands, we just helped financially.
He built his house in his village with the local tradespeople.
The Balinese are one of the most talented people I have ever seen. They build and create things with their hands and simple tools that put western tradesman to shame
I have never heard of anyone getting arrested for building or making things?

As for begging, yes there are many poor there, there is no welfare of any kind that I know of. If you are unemployed or injured. If you have no one to look after you, you beg or die. If you are unwell and cant pay for doctors, you die. Our friend got throat cancer, his Medical bills were about $3000 aussie. That is about a million years wages for him :)
He was lucky in that he was working and could take a loan, however he lost his job due to poor health. The loan repayments became insurmountable. It was only then he told us what had happened. We helped out, now he is out of debt and his health is better.
As for speakin english, if you go to the tourist areas then yes many people speak English, they have to to be able to work. But if you spend your time away from the tourist areas like we do then you better get used to basic words and a lot of pointing and gestures :)

Since i am bringing my family i will hire a tourist guide to do the guiding and everything except hotel, they have a schedule of the time and place they will take u and the activities u will do. Everything is listed.
The hotel i will try to take a luxury one because my family like class and comfortable stuff. Myself i don't mind, as long it's clean with no rats, cockroaches and fleas.
Ok, that's a shame. You will only see the commercial side of Bali. Yes there are some horrible places to stay if you dont do your research. But that's why i suggested staying at the best hotel in a poor area :)
You guide in your case will probably take you to all the tourist places where you can spend your money. Nice but not the real Bali.

One of the times I was there I was talking to a local working in a resteraunt. He was a real nice fellow, happy, friendly helpful.
In conversation I asked hi if he gets to keep any tips he is given, his face saddened a little and said no he has to give it to the owners (Bloody wealthy Chinese again) he is only given a small amount of the tip. That made me angry as they are paid a pittance as it is. I asked him as we were leaving where he would take people top see things. He smiled and started quoting things like the water bom park and the volcano etc. I smiled but said no, what are the nice places you go to that the locals like to visit if they get time. He understood, Grabbing a pen he drew a map of places on a napkin and told me to give this to my driver. He told me not to worry, you wont find them in the brochure but the driver will know.
I did and we saw some of the most amazing scenery, visited beautiful little villages, met amazing craftsmen, kite makers, wood carvers, furniture makers. We went to the places that make the nice versions of the stuff you will find in the tourist places. It was fantastic and set the pattern for every visit.
Anyway I reached into my pocket and all I had was about 50,000 rupea, about 6 or 7 dollars aussie at the time.
I rolled it up into a ball and as I shook his hand to leave I winked and passed it to him in a handshake.
I thought nothing of it.
A coupl eof days later he came running up to me in the street. He said he looked for me the day before but could not fing me. He told me he bought a pair of runners for his daughter (about 5 years old) with little lights in the soles that flashed when she ran. He said his wife wanted to thank me and that she cried she was so happy to see her daughter laugh.
$6 Aussie Fish!!!!

I never barter for things any more now if the price is fair. Every $ you win is a dollar less food for them.

Anyway, I digress, my point is, the tourist places are nice enough, but it is the Disneyland version of Bali. Nice, pretty, but not real. If you want to see the real Bali, you have to get away from all that.
Oh...
If you get stopped by the local Police, "DO NOT ARGUE NO MATTER WHAT" if they say you have to pay them a fine for something on the spot, "PAY IT!!!" Do not argue, or you will lose and you will be sorry after :)
 
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Dundee

Guest
Sorry you asked how we met our friends. On our first visit we were so troubled by the poverty and the cruel oppressive Mulim government. Such a wonderful people and culture left so totally deserted by the shit political system.

I was utterly embarrassed to be a westerner when I saw such a financially poor people be so happy with nothing. I felt ahamed and wanted to help. We had some other Aussie friends that visit regularly and spoke to them. They had been helping out a family for years and said they knew of another family doing it tough. Husband and Wife and one child (now 3 kids :) )
So we asked them to put us in touch with them and we have helped ever since.

Last visit instead of us going to the villiage they came to our hotel. Dad, Mum and three girls all on one scooter :)
We took them out for lunch and walked on the beach and bought ice creams for the kids.
We had a wonderful day.
He told me it is the first time his daughters had seen the ocean, and the first time his wife had seen where he works (in 10 years). I asked why and he said they could not afford the cost of making the 40 minute trip from his village to the coast just for recreation. It was a lovely day. We paid for the day of course :)
 
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Fish

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They build and create things with their hands and simple tools that put western tradesman to shame
I have never heard of anyone getting arrested for building or making things?
Well to begin with, making property on just any land is illegal, that could be someone's property and it could be a forest reserve area. And building and renovating buildings as u like is also illegal without consulting the land office, imagine making a skyscraper in the residential area, u could look into your neighbour's bathroom windows.



If you are unwell and cant pay for doctors, you die. Our friend got throat cancer, his Medical bills were about $3000 aussie. That is about a million years wages for him
So i suppose healthcare is not free there, i wonder why, making healthcare care free isn't hard, the government can make it through tax money.


As for speakin english, if you go to the tourist areas then yes many people speak English, they have to to be able to work. But if you spend your time away from the tourist areas like we do then you better get used to basic words and a lot of pointing and gestures :)
I see, they are from the Dutch empire and they follow the Dutch law but don't think they can speak Dutch now. Here speaking English is very common even with the uneducated ones, i've been speaking English since young in school and now even in work, they use english in banks, lawyer documents, private companies and etc, only in the government sectors they use Bahasa to be patriotic. English would have been the official language here if British didn't play the race card.




In conversation I asked hi if he gets to keep any tips he is given, his face saddened a little and said no he has to give it to the owners (Bloody wealthy Chinese again) he is only given a small amount of the tip. T
Those Chinese ppl are the Indonesians,
The truth is Chinese ppl are very hardworking ppl,
They didn't start rich, they made themselves rich by working very hard, even here they are the ones who control the economy, they are the ones who are the billionaires, u can hardly see a Malay being a billionaire despite being the majority. When u pamper and favour someone alot they will become very lazy, and they being poor is mainly due to their laziness, but that is for here, i don't know about Indonesia, that's a different story. But Chinese ppl working hard and becoming rich is very common everywhere.



He told me he bought a pair of runners for his daughter (about 5 years old) with little lights in the soles that flashed when she ran. He said his wife wanted to thank me and that she cried she was so happy to see her daughter laugh.
$6 Aussie Fish!!!!
Really? I thought shoes for 5 year old should be cheaper than that, here u could get it for RM10, that is $3 Australian dollars. I think he can afford it, just that maybe the father was stingy till u gave him some $.






On our first visit we were so troubled by the poverty and the cruel oppressive Mulim government. Such a wonderful people and culture left so totally deserte
No, It's a secular government.

They all were Hindus back then in the 1st century, it was brought by the traders and Hinduism is what made their culture, before Hinduism were all atheist, then in the 6th century some adopted Buddhism which was also brought by the traders. Only recently like 700 years ago islam came to Indonesia brought by the traders also. Maybe u could become a trader and spread your religion there also lol.

I agree on the shit politic system, i also suspect that there could be some kind of corruption happend for them to have poverty that many.





l day.
He told me it is the first time his daughters had seen the ocean, and the first time his wife had seen where he works (in 10 years). I asked why and he said they could not afford the cost of making the 40 minute trip from his village to the coast just for recreation. It was a lovely day. We paid for the day of course :)

How old were they? the poor Indonesians like to marry young, the girls will always marry around 16 years old and men around that age idk why.
 
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Dundee

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I am going to leave this alone now fish, you seem to think you know all about a place you have never been to.
My only advice to you know Fish is to empty your cup.
You leave no room for learning when you are so sure you already have all the answers.
I am not going to bother to correct your errors above, you have no interest in anything but your preconceptions.
I hope you enjoy your trip.
 
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Fish

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I am going to leave this alone now fish, you seem to think you know all about a place you have never been to. My only advice to you know Fish is to empty your cup. You leave no room for learning when you are so sure you already have all the answers. I am not going to bother to correct your errors above, you have no interest in anything but your preconceptions. I hope you enjoy your trip.
Eh? I thought we were just chatting all this while or was it suppose to be some kind of a debate? Anyways thanks for the tips.
 
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Dundee

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Eh? I thought we were just chatting all this while or was it suppose to be some kind of a debate? Anyways thanks for the tips.

No debate at all fish, some of your comments are simply incorrect is all.
I can't not comment on this as your words are so offensive to me.

There are many wealthy Chinese owned business, taxi companies and so on in Bali and they have harsh conditions, pay the locals a pittance, and are not nice to work for. And in the example I gave take the workers tips. So your comment "Those Chinese ppl are the Indonesians," is in most cases just not true. The Chinese business owners exploit the poverty and the Indonesians desperation for work. Simple truth. Ask the questions when you get there, you will see. But don't ask your wealthy mates that own your hotel. Ask the poor folks who you see when you walk down the street. If you bother to go see the real Balinese folks that is.

As for the building, do you really think a local villager does not know the process to build a house in his own country and own villiage? They are not idiots!

The runners being cheap!!
You have no idea of the level of poverty there.
One of the best paying jobs in Bali when I was last there was a Taxi Driver.
Those jobs are coveted and very hard to get.
The drivers I spoke to were working 12 to 16 hour days, 6 days a week (in some cases 7) for about $60 AU take home / week.
Some folks work in Chinese and Indonesian owned shops and pubs for $30 / week.
Some folks try to build craft stuff to sell to tourists that take them hours to make and they ask for $5 and tourist barter them down to $1, they say yes becasue $1 get them at least some food. holding out for $5 and not selling they starve.

One night I walked into a compound where a couple of families lived. There was a small shop at the front. I noticed 4 kids sitting on the ground sharing a single bowl of rice. I also noticed that the bowl was very small and that the quantity of rice being shared I have pushed back on a meal saying I am full I cant finish that.
My leftovers were more than a shared meal between 4 kids.
I was ashamed.

One pitiful skinny elderly lady had me in tears one night. She was dressed in old clothes, torn shoes and was pushed away from the busy area by shop owners. She had bad teeth and looked like she had not had a decent meal in a long time.
Most RICH tourist ignored her, some were rude to her. She simply stood quietly holding out here hand as people passed by.
I stopped and said hello, she spoke almost no English. I chatted as well I I could for a short while.
I gave her what I had in my pocket, her eyes and face warmed into a smile and she thanked me profusely and bowed with her hands together as if praying.
I felt awful for her, I felt like I should bow to her and appologise for the harsh world she endures every day.

So yes, a pair of runners in many cases though only $6 might be a half a weeks wages for some.
So your comment that the father was stingy is bloody ill informed and insulting.

So please keep your ill informed poor little rich girl comments to yourself until you have been there and seen what I have seen.

The father was Stingy!!! That is a disgraceful thing to say.

Oh and before you give me a lesson in Balinese property and Business law, I have looked into it. There was a job in a school I could have gone for and was going to live there. I put it to my kids and 1 out of the 4 did not want to leave his friends in Australia. So I did not. But I know enough about non Indonesians needing a local advocate etc to understand the difficulties.
 
F

Fish

Guest
I can't not comment on this as your words are so offensive to me.

U find this offensive, seriously??
What i must do to make u feel less offended now? How about a cookie? I can post it to u asap.. How am i suppose to reply to this then? ..

I am going to leave this alone now fish, you seem to think you know all about a place you have never been to.
My only advice to you know Fish is to empty your cup.
You leave no room for learning when you are so sure you already have all the answers.
I am not going to bother to correct your errors above, you have no interest in anything but your preconceptions.
I hope you enjoy your trip.


There are many wealthy Chinese owned business, taxi companies and so on in Bali and they have harsh conditions, pay the locals a pittance, and are not nice to work for. And in the example I gave take the workers tips. So your comment "Those Chinese ppl are the Indonesians," is in most cases just not true. The Chinese business owners exploit the poverty and the Indonesians desperation for work.

Seems like you've been looking at Chinese ppl alot more than the surrounding.

How do u know they are ppl from China, Do u have the prove? And how about the Chinese billionaires in Malaysia and Singapore, are they all from China too? And what makes u think that the chinese owners are exploiting them, are u expecting them to pay the ppl in Australian dollars and not in Indonesia currency instead?


The runners being cheap!!
You have no idea of the level of poverty there.
One of the best paying jobs in Bali when I was last there was a Taxi Driver.
Those jobs are coveted and very hard to get.
The drivers I spoke to were working 12 to 16 hour days, 6 days a week (in some cases 7) for about $60 AU take home / week.
Some folks work in Chinese and Indonesian owned shops and pubs for $30 / week.
Some folks try to build craft stuff to sell to tourists that take them hours to make and they ask for $5 and tourist barter them down to $1, they say yes becasue $1 get them at least some food. holding out for $5 and not selling they starve.

The currency is such there, the minimum pay here is around USD60 to USD50 a week also, i have worked for such pay also and i wasn't poor. That pub work is only for some hours in the night, so ofc the pay will be lesser. The minimum pay for 8 hours a day is $50, its the same here also in our currency, having low currency doesn't mean that we r poor scavengers.


One night I walked into a compound where a couple of families lived. There was a small shop at the front. I noticed 4 kids sitting on the ground sharing a single bowl of rice. I also noticed that the bowl was very small and that the quantity of rice being shared I have pushed back on a meal saying I am full I cant finish that.
My leftovers were more than a shared meal between 4 kids.
I was ashamed.

One pitiful skinny elderly lady had me in tears one night. She was dressed in old clothes, torn shoes and was pushed away from the busy area by shop owners. She had bad teeth and looked like she had not had a decent meal in a long time.
Most RICH tourist ignored her, some were rude to her. She simply stood quietly holding out here hand as people passed by.
I stopped and said hello, she spoke almost no English. I chatted as well I I could for a short while.
I gave her what I had in my pocket, her eyes and face warmed into a smile and she thanked me profusely and bowed with her hands together as if praying.
I felt awful for her, I felt like I should bow to her and appologise for the harsh world she endures every day.

So yes, a pair of runners in many cases though only $6 might be a half a weeks wages for some.
So your comment that the father was stingy is bloody ill informed and insulting

If u feel so bad for them u better work hard and give them your $, don't encourage them to work and don't complain about the Chinese ppl, at least they are giving jobs to the ppl, u r not.

Besides they've asked for such life, all the poor ppl knows is to marry young at 16 and give birth to many kids, Work and money only comes after that. Chinese ppl r rich coz they work hard first then marry later.




please keep your ill informed poor little rich girl comments to yourself until you have been there and seen what I have seen.

What, i'm poor?!!
i didn't know i was poor all this while, u know me better than me, u must be god or something lol.


Oh and before you give me a lesson in Balinese property and Business law, I have looked into it. There was a job in a school I could have gone for and was going to live there. I put it to my kids and 1 out of the 4 did not want to leave his friends in Australia. So I did not. But I know enough about non Indonesians needing a local advocate etc to understand the difficulties.

If u don't like free lessons then pay me.
U r talking about working Visa. Buying a property and opening a business vs working Visa are all different things.

Opening a business u need to register yourself to the income tax department, register your company with copyright (speaking of copyright, copyright in Indonesia may not be approved in other parts of the world, their ways are different), get a accountant to do your income tax, and etc, etc.

And for property, u got to see if u r eligible to own that property or not, foreigner have a limit to what they can buy and own in Indonesia, same like in Australia. Not trying to be a smart arse, that's my job.
 
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Dundee

Guest
I have been there many times, I have friends there that are Balinese.
I know what I am talking about. You live in fairy land with your silly text book ideas.

As for the Chinese, and proof.
I have been there many times, the picture is always the same about them.
I have talked with the people they employ, have you?
I have heard the same story over and over about the Chinese there, have you?
I have on occasion seen their Chinese employers there, have you?
No that's right, your information comes from the internet.

As for the minimum wage, that is Hilarious.
I am sure the poor people earning a few dollars a day will be happy to know they are being ripped off.
Perhaps you can tell there employers to pay them properly.
Good luck with that.

When you have spent a little more time in the real world, come back and talk with the grownups.
I am not wasting any more time with a little girl who thinks she knows everything becasue she read it somewhere.