Skeptics Strike Back

^A very good piece...should be read by all who are interested in this area.....from the article:

"The reason scientists don’t talk very much about UFOs or UAPs is simple: without sufficient data, we cannot draw any meaningful conclusions. It’s very easy to throw out an idea (or a guess) as to what each of these videos might actually be showing, and many scientists and non-scientists alike have eagerly done exactly that. However, what we’d like to do, as scientists, is to gather enough data to determine what these objects are likely to be. At present, it would be the height of irresponsibility to claim that we have that information.
We simply don’t know what they are. Are they unidentified? Absolutely. Unexplained? At least so far. Are they “flying” or aerial entities? Almost certainly; they certainly appear to be. And are they objects or phenomena? Sure; those words are nebulous enough that they apply equally to jumbo jets as they do to aurorae. What you mustn’t do, however, is to draw a fantastic conclusion — like “these objects must be aliens” — without sufficient evidence to do so. Given that these UFOs/UAPs are most frequently seen in areas with military presences, and have never been recorded in the professional telescopes of astronomers, the null hypothesis of these being terrestrial phenomena must continue to be our default position."
 
But why the reticence? Scientists see a disease and hunt for a cure where they think it most likely. They take unknown things and make best guesses to guid e their study to an answer. As Elizondo says, you have craft doing 600g turns, traveling at 15000mph. Go through air water and space. Have no visible control surfaces. They come and go with impunity in and out of restricted air space. Blink in and out of visibility to the eye and radar. Move 80.000 feet in less than a second. Defy gravity. And more. What does that sound like to you? No one s saying 100% tbis is ET.
But your not willing to make a best guess call?
This is note a poke at you doc but it seems to me scientists are just chicken shit. They are so accustomed to their feeling of superiority over mere mortals there just too plan scared to have a guess so they hide behind the method.

It seems to me these extreme cases like tic tac etc can really go one of two ways. Thier from earth... Or there not. Given what we know. Commentary from people in a position to know saying they dont think any country can make them. That the physics though possible is 100 to 1000 years away.

Your still unwilling to take a best guess?

It sure seems like there not from around here and that kinda hints at ET or your favorite inter dimensional.
 
Well..I can't speak for all scientists nor science in general, but it's not reticence as much as it is needing the facts before making a pronouncement. That has always been the hallmark of science and why it has worked so well for us on earth. It doesn't guess ...it presents an hypothesis, gets the facts, and makes a conclusion after it has the data.So I suspect that most scientists want more data...it's that simple.(That is clearly stated in the 2 paragraphs above I posted already) I don't think there is any one upmanship or conspiracy here..imo that's only in the minds of 'believers'. ( It bothers me that so many who profess belief in aliens...a scientific area btw...have such a negative outlook on science which has given them everything they have,even the ability to discuss it online.) And I think science has been investigating the UFO enigma for a long time in secret..probably in various covert groups like the one Elizondo was involved with. Dr Vallee had a private group he called The Invisible College. I think many scientists are willing to entertain the idea that some ufos could be alien in origin...just not publically without more information. You and I have nothing to lose by shooting off our mouths...they do.
I have always thought that some ufos could be 'alien' in origin. But what is that origin? People have seen strange things in the sky and on the ground for a long long time if we can trust older reports and tales. And I do tend to follow Dr Vallee's train of thought that it's likely they are not from outer space but from somewhere else. There are many reasons to think that way and I have mentioned them before. People (ufo and disclosure fans) seem to focus on the objects seen flying around that get captured on film and video over the last 75 years or so ...like the current ones in the news, but imho the real truth lies in the encounter events that contain high strangeness. We will learn nothing concrete from pics and videos of objects we cannot get a proper handle on with our current instrumentation, but we might learn something if we could have a meaningful encounter with this unknown intelligence up close and personal. But that really depends on this 'phenomenon' and if it is willing to communicate.
 
Dundee,

A 'best guess' is just that, a guess. It has no value.

Remember plogiston ? Thought not. Few people these days know of it. But a long time ago it was all the rage in scientific circles.

The big question at the time was 'why do things burn ?' And after a while 'the best guess' was that it was caused by something in the material. And they called this 'stuff' phlogiston.Things burn because there is phlogiston in them.
No one could find this phlogiston, but for around 100 years it was accepted as scientific fact.

But it was wrong.

Eventually it was discovered that things burn because they give of gas that reacts with oxygen.

So the best guess of the day, based on what they knew, led them down the wrong path.

Same can be said for the ufo. We don't knowfor certain what they are. We certainly don't know where they come from.

ET is the ufo scene's phlogiston.

We haven't found any actual candidates for extra terrestrials to come from. But we will guess that there must be someplace out there. It's the best guess; if you follow the ET hypothesis.

Better to find out more facts before attributing them to little green men.
 
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So if that is the case, that there is not enough information to 1. Verify it, and 2. Make a call that it is extrordinary and might be ET.

Why is it OK for so many scientists with the same information making a call of the opposite and sayiny it is a misidentified Earthly phenomenon. Some scientist have been making the call that the tic ta is a balloon. And all manner of other identifications.

How come its OK for them to say it is most likely an earthly object, and not an unearthly object?
Because on the evidence available it sure doesnt match anything we know.

Sounds like double standards/
 
LETA said:
Neil deGrasse Tyson on the Joe Rogan show is not convinced aliens are visiting:

Click to expand...

He is not a scientist's butt hole. Can't stand that idiot. He might have been a scientist once, now he is the Stephen Greer of the Scientist world. I would not give you 5 cents for his opinion on the best toothpaste.
 
LETA said:
Keith Kloor questions Elizondo's background on The Intercept:

theintercept.com

The Media Loves This UFO Expert Who Says He Worked for an Obscure Pentagon Program. Did He?

There is no discernible evidence that Luis Elizondo ever worked for a government UFO program, much less led one.
theintercept.com theintercept.com
Click to expand...
I don't know anything about the fellow, however, I'd like to point out that I worked a CLASSIFED contract, where there is no record of my having worked at the facility. As I tried to suit my former business partner for various reasons, but I could not force the DoD to cough up proof of my work at a particular DoD facility. That is one of the problems in doing classified work. Same thing happened to Bob Lazar. I think he also fabricated a few things, but his 'Sport Model' looked exactly like the craft I saw in 1965, in daylight, at altitude of about 50ft/15m. And, his claim regarding EG&G, is very similar to an experience that I had. All his records disappeared. So these babblers who claim that there is no evidence of having worked for the DoD, how can they prove it?
 
LETA said:
Neil deGrasse Tyson on the Joe Rogan show is not convinced aliens are visiting:

Click to expand...

Ever notice how the guys who know nothing about a subject are the first with an opinion? Why would Tyson know anything about ET presence? He is not interested to study the subject. Its ok to have an opinion, although its an uninformed opinion.
 
LETA said:
Seth Shostak doesn't believe in alien visiting Earth:

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I debated the subject of ET presence in front of about 1500 scientists, with Dr. Shostak, at the COTI conference, hosted by Cabrillo.edu anthropology school. His is just another uninformed opinion; Dr. Shostak is not interested in the subject of ET presence, has not expended any significant time studying the subject. He believes, because, according to Earthian understanding of physics, that nothing physical can travel faster than the speed of light, and since exo-solar systems are many lightyears distant from Earth, that ET can't get here, and therefore there is no reasonable reason to search for ET presence. He is intransitive to the idea. I think of SETI as something akin to searching for smoke signals from radio-operators, --it is that retarded.
 
LETA said:
7NtLDCe.png

Image: Commons​

Ever since Ufology was young, certain individuals have dedicated themselves to the task of bringing a critical eye to the debate of whether unidentified flying objects (UFOs) merit the aura of canonical truth bestowed upon it by a sector of society they perceive to be uninformed and easily swayed into gullibility. While this perception may not be entirely erroneous, it is evident that the UFO phenomenon also attracts cultured individuals from all walks of life and academic backgrounds.

With the advent of social media, blogs, and other interactive mediums, skeptics have found these new tools at their disposal very useful to inject themselves into every possible nook and cranny where UFOs and other assorted varieties of fringe reside. Once in place, some skeptics deploy their preferred method to combat the perceived ignorance of those around them: debunking.

Over time, several skeptics have risen to notoriety in the field of ufology for their effectiveness in casting doubt on every new piece of purported UFO evidence that emerges. This breed of skeptics is not only well-informed and possessing of a keen intellect along with a sharp tongue, but is also willing and able to perform experiments in order to expose frauds and dissuade the masses from their wayward, unscientific ways.

In this thread, we compile some of the best work by these eminent skeptics in the interest of objectivity. Members are invited to post content they find compelling from online skeptical/debunking sources, as well as their own. Let the debunking commence.
Click to expand...
I suspect that many don't know that phrases "AOP", "UAP" were both coined by Dr. Carl Sagan. Many people believe that he was a sceptic, perhaps, but at the time of his passing from leukemia, his girlfreind was the director of the Laurel Canyon Ca Abduction Clinic.
 
Plutronus,

..I debated the subject of ET presence in front of about 1500 scientists, with Dr. Shostak, at the COTI conference, hosted by Cabrillo.edu anthropology school...

Do you have a date for this conference ?
 
HAL said:
Plutronus,

..I debated the subject of ET presence in front of about 1500 scientists, with Dr. Shostak, at the COTI conference, hosted by Cabrillo.edu anthropology school...

Do you have a date for this conference ?
Click to expand...
HAL,

1998 COTI 'Contact' Conference. I was invited to attend by billionaire Robert Bigelow and his senior NIDS scientist, Dr. Albert Harrison and Dr. Harrison's friend, Dr. Allen Tough. Dr. Harrison (deceased, heart attack) was NASA long term space transit consultant, Prof of psychology, UC Davis.edu, and Dr. Tough, (deceased, brain disease) Prof Emeritus, pyschology, Toronto.edu. Both were BoD members of the SETI Institute. Along with several other NASA scientists, they all met with me in my hotel room at the conference, where I demonstrated my 'ETp Luminous Orb Interactive Bi-Directional Hybrid Contact Experiment' platform. Among those people were various scientists who were actively studying the Bigelow owned Sherman Ranch (aka "SkinWalker Ranch") anomalies. Luminous-Orbs are one of the main anomalies observed at the ranch. My ETp is a Linux based programmable electronic contact experiment. I designed the experiment to demonstrate that ET are telepathic. The ETp platform is a hybrid bi-directional communication experiment, that demonstrats that luminous-orb ET sense that Humans 'leak' telepathic information. The experiment demonstrates that luminous-orb ET recognize that Humans leak telepathy, while also recognizing that most Humans are incapable of receiving 'transmitted' telepathic messages and ET 'transmit' light messages in reply instead which Humans easily sense.

plutronus
 
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Plutronus,

Sounds like you have plenty to keep you occupied .

What sort of reception did your work get ?
 
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