Is it all over ?

I believe that there is some misunderstanding here. I am in the middle, but more leaning to the pro side. You suggested that believers don't apply reason and compared them to Trump supporters. 😁 Ouch I think that's a bit unfair.
But we do apply reason. Here is mine.
Again using the tic tax.

1. It displayed abilities far beyond the capacity of any craft any of us without some top secret clearance knows about.
2. It appeared to at times defy physics.
3. The trained military witnesses are all scratching their heads for an explanation.

So this leaves me with a couple of options.
All the tracking equipment the military had malfunctioned at the same time and all the trained witnesses were either mistaken or hallucinate at the same time.

I Reason that this is unlikely.
So whatever it was was real.

So if real it might be secret tech. But I have seen nothing anywhere so far that comes within a bulls roar of what this did. Now if I posted a thread saying scientists perfect anti gravity and inertial dampers you would all laugh and say show me the proof. Yet now the coin is flipped you are happy to say that secret squirrel government might have ecacty that as secret tech to explain tic tacs abilities.

Well I reason as we have so far had no evidence to support that idea. It's not likely to be that.

So given all that I think ET is a possible explanation. As we have had countless sightings of things in the sky over the years showing similar capabilities.
Thats my reading. Why I think that ET is a possible and even likely answer.

I don't fell that is trump supporter like at all
 
The trump supporter thing was a bad analogy.

It was mean to suggest that someone start a story about a ufo incident, then it takes on a life of it's own and it becomes very hard to trace back to it's origin, let alone change it if it is found that it is inaccurate.

Should trump ever come out and admit he made it all up, there will be millions who will believe he is saying that under duress.

If you look at the original Rendlesham Forest affair it is very different to what is being said today.
 
...Yet now the coin is flipped you are happy to say that secret squirrel government might have ecacty that as secret tech to explain tic tacs abilities...

Not me. I hold that if the video is real then we have nothing to even get close to it. Or to many other similar objects.
That doesn't detract from my assertion that by now we should have a better idea of what we are dealing with.
It is almost as if there is no wish to know.
 
If aliens are advanced enough to visit Earth, then I imagine they are capable of remaining hidden if they want or being sighted by who they want. Whether or not the US government release UFO files is irrelevant if aliens don't want to be discovered unambiguously I think.
 
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Bri_73 said:
If aliens are advanced enough to visit Earth, then I imagine they are capable of remaining hidden if they want or being sighted by who they want. Whether or not the US government release UFO files is irrelevant if aliens don't want to be discovered unambiguously I think.
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Hey Bri 73, welcome aboard.

I agree, it is pretty easy for our scientists do monitor primitive cultures here on earth. For that matter even one advanced country to another without them knowing. And we are a few hundred years apart only. Imagine even 200 years ahead of us, or 100. So yes, if they did not want to be seen, they wouldn't. And as for motive of why stay hidden, and why randomly poke their heads up. Who can know the motivations of an advanced civilization. Do primitive cultures know why anthropologists study them?
 
Dundee said:
Hey Bri 73, welcome aboard.

I agree, it is pretty easy for our scientists do monitor primitive cultures here on earth. For that matter even one advanced country to another without them knowing. And we are a few hundred years apart only. Imagine even 200 years ahead of us, or 100. So yes, if they did not want to be seen, they wouldn't. And as for motive of why stay hidden, and why randomly poke their heads up. Who can know the motivations of an advanced civilization. Do primitive cultures know why anthropologists study them?
Click to expand...
Thank you.
My guess is that advanced civilisations know full well people live on Earth, and they have maybe quietly visited Earth. Maybe they have even been in human avatars or simply 'magically' appeared to interact with humans, using a technology as yet unknown to humans (or maybe they or their automated or AI drones are invisible!). But as to why they haven't announced themselves to humans beyond all reasonable doubt, my guess is Star Trek got it right: it's something akin to the 'Prime Directive' i.e. maybe there is an inter-galactic ruling or understanding that emerging civilisations must be allowed to find their own way, make their own mistakes, so as to best equip them with as firm a foundation as possible in the path to becoming fully moral and wise beings.
 
Sounds reasonable. However if they are waiting for morality and wisdom from this pale blue dot I guess we won't be putting on the kettle or ET any time soon.
 
Bri_73 said:
Thank you.
My guess is that advanced civilisations know full well people live on Earth, and they have maybe quietly visited Earth. Maybe they have even been in human avatars or simply 'magically' appeared to interact with humans, using a technology as yet unknown to humans (or maybe they or their automated or AI drones are invisible!). But as to why they haven't announced themselves to humans beyond all reasonable doubt, my guess is Star Trek got it right: it's something akin to the 'Prime Directive' i.e. maybe there is an inter-galactic ruling or understanding that emerging civilisations must be allowed to find their own way, make their own mistakes, so as to best equip them with as firm a foundation as possible in the path to becoming fully moral and wise beings.
Click to expand...
Welcome to the forum... (y)
Regarding the 'Star Trek' idea...the problem with that is that it's a 'human' concept and there is no reason to assume that an alien mind would think that way nor that there is some kind of 'Galactic Federation' which is also a human idea. It makes sense to us perhaps but might not have any meaning to aliens. Often when people discuss the ufo/alien phenomenon they interject human ideas into the actions of the 'aliens'.
As to 'quietly visiting' us....often 'they' are not so quiet at all and in many cases act like 'they ' want to be seen. To me this is a bit strange if 'they' want to keep a low profile. Because of this ,after many years of reading about 'them', I tend to lean to the idea we are not dealing with simple aliens from another star system but something stranger. We could spend days discussing what 'they' might be but I like to refer people to a book called 'Dimensions' by Dr J Vallee. Perhaps we are barking up the wrong tree...?
 
Bri_73 said:
Maybe :-)
Click to expand...
Hey Bri,
on a side note, cool Avatar. how suspicious was image no 6 in that series. Did you zoom in? That was no space junk as NASA originally called it. I found that on the NASA site the day they posted it. Then the next day they has changed them to the low res images and the top center one (actually image 6 in the originals)(also zery zoomed and cropped here) was unrecognisble at low res. However the cat was out of the bag and a shit load of folks including me had already got it.
This one I can verify as originating from NASA. Thats where I got it directly ages ago.
So my word is worth very little I guess. But I did get it from NASA directly.

Here is a zoomed collage of the 6
Top Center is no space junk

iu
 
Mighty I ask where those images above are online...and how we know it's from NASA?
At any rate it's an irregular shape to say the least..not truly aerodynamic ....but I suppose if it's alien their propulsion systems might not need a regular shaped craft.
 
Dr Wu said:
Mighty I ask where those images above are online...and how we know it's from NASA?
At any rate it's an irregular shape to say the least..not truly aerodynamic ....but I suppose if it's alien their propulsion systems might not need a regular shaped craft.
Click to expand...
It was ages ago, definitly many months probably a year or two, time gets away. But I was perusing one f the NASA .gov ssites at the time and came across space junk. I looked at them and image 6 looked like more detail. I zoomed in and well thats what can be seen.
I am still at work but I am pretty sure they are still on the NASA site.
I was at work the next day and as I did not have my home computer so I tried to find them again to show a workmate. I found the 6 images but they had been swapped out with low res ones. Obviously the same shots though. But I had downloaded the originals the night before.
But at the time there was a lot of buzz about it and youcan see these n a lot of places so I am pretty sure NASA put back up the originals and stuck with the space junk story. I will try and find them on the NASA sites.
 
Here is about as credible a source as I can find on short notice, It doesnt ring a bell with me as where I found it first.
I reckon it was a mission based sub page of a NASA website with photoes related to that.
With an image folder, that had a group of 6 marked at the time as space junk. 1 to 5 are interesting but in fairness could be anything. Image 6 looks pretty much like some sort of craft to me. Not saying it is ET, might be secret tech.
But I dont think it is space junk.

Astronaut Photo STS088-724-70 OCEAN

eol.jsc.nasa.gov eol.jsc.nasa.gov

I have my originals here and a high res Zoom Ican confirm shows this.

iu
 
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Dr Wu said:
Welcome to the forum... (y)
Regarding the 'Star Trek' idea...the problem with that is that it's a 'human' concept and there is no reason to assume that an alien mind would think that way nor that there is some kind of 'Galactic Federation' which is also a human idea. It makes sense to us perhaps but might not have any meaning to aliens. Often when people discuss the ufo/alien phenomenon they interject human ideas into the actions of the 'aliens'.
As to 'quietly visiting' us....often 'they' are not so quiet at all and in many cases act like 'they ' want to be seen. To me this is a bit strange if 'they' want to keep a low profile. Because of this ,after many years of reading about 'them', I tend to lean to the idea we are not dealing with simple aliens from another star system but something stranger. We could spend days discussing what 'they' might be but I like to refer people to a book called 'Dimensions' by Dr J Vallee. Perhaps we are barking up the wrong tree...?
Click to expand...
I accept it's easy to superimpose Earth ideas onto alien concepts. However, whilst I use Earth based science fiction analogies ('the Prime Directive', 'an inter-galactic agreement'), these are based on logic, and I'd strongly expect logic is universal throughout the cosmos (e.g. that 1+1=2). Unlike arbitrary ideas which require telling to spread, logic doesn't require communication between two planets for each planet to arrive at the same conclusion. So, this is my logic which led to the 'Prime Directive' suggestion: (i) In general, earthlings are unsure as to the existence of aliens; (ii) Humans may only be a century away from establishing whether life exists around our nearest stars; (iii) most stars have multiple planets, and it's more likely that intelligent civilisations are commonplace than rare because we know there is an intelligent civilisation here on Earth (if you landed on a planet and there was a patch of grass under your ship, you could reasonably assume it is more likely grass is commonplace around the planet than you have landed on the one patch of grass on the whole planet); (iv) It is very unlikely Earth is the pinnacle of advancement, and instead there are many more advanced civilisations, which are 100s, millions, even billions of years more advanced than Earth - and therefore they likely have long since surveyed their galactic neighbours; (v) but they don't contact us (explicitly anyway) - this is the Fermi Paradox as I guess you know - "where are they?" - I deduce that as they are probably capable and yet don't announce themselves to everyone on Earth they either don't want to, or have agreed not to, or have been ordered not to, or are unable to due to some power putting a barrier around Earth - but for what purpose? Clearly humans would have a much easier time of it if aliens swanned in and took over. There'd be abundance, no crime, harmony. But also, humans would probably still be be morally immature, and generally wouldn't love one another. Therefore, I guess, there is an infinite wisdom, either possessed by 'aliens' through independent logic or communicated and agreed upon via a cosmic web, to allow young races to make their mistakes (though maybe there is help given in subtle ways) and thus be able to build, and be loving citizens of, a paradise like global community without the requirement of, or at least less of a requirement of, external police to check and control their behaviour. My guess is that the plan is that we unite as a global family, dispense with competition, and cooperate on a global scale to do what is best for all sentient beings, for all time to come. This 'One World' idea is derived from logic, one doesn't need to read it in a book to come up with it, and hence I guess the same idea is held throughout the cosmological family.
 
Hey Bri,
IMHO your comments on logic are flawed. Logic is very much a matter of perspective.
Your assuming that the Alien civilization has similar principles of right and wrong.
If this is true then your assumption is valid.

I will give you a crazy example.
Imagine 500 years from now that we discover some amazing food source on a moon of mars, only thing is there is a small race of just sentient beings. Smarter than monkeys, but not as smart as us.
They are dependent on that food source. They will not share and protect it with their lives.
But there is a fine balance between the number of aliens and the food. Any loss of food will surely kill them.

Now there is a terrible famine on earth, mankind is in danger of extinction. We have no way out but to take the food from the aliens, we have the ability, but they wont share. Earth is left with a choice, let mankind fade to extinction, or take the food by force, save mankind, but the race dies. There are only a few million aliens, but billions of earth people.

What is the logic here??
Do we let 11 Billion people die, to save a million?

Earth still in places practices human sacrifice.
To them, it is perfectly logical.

What about a new building development, it is so huge. Massive shopping complex, 1000s of houses.
Only thing, when they need to start the ground works, there is a small forest with animals birds.
It is very sandy, and there is 100s of ants nests in the sand. Billions upon Billions of ants.

Is it logical to not proceed?

The prime directive works great between similar species.
But not so much for the folks who encounter the Borg or Species 8472.

You can't use our logic here,
 
Dundee said:
Hey Bri,
IMHO your comments on logic are flawed. Logic is very much a matter of perspective.
Your assuming that the Alien civilization has similar principles of right and wrong.
If this is true then your assumption is valid.

I will give you a crazy example.
Imagine 500 years from now that we discover some amazing food source on a moon of mars, only thing is there is a small race of just sentient beings. Smarter than monkeys, but not as smart as us.
They are dependent on that food source. They will not share and protect it with their lives.
But there is a fine balance between the number of aliens and the food. Any loss of food will surely kill them.

Now there is a terrible famine on earth, mankind is in danger of extinction. We have no way out but to take the food from the aliens, we have the ability, but they wont share. Earth is left with a choice, let mankind fade to extinction, or take the food by force, save mankind, but the race dies. There are only a few million aliens, but billions of earth people.

What is the logic here??
Do we let 11 Billion people die, to save a million?

Earth still in places practices human sacrifice.
To them, it is perfectly logical.

What about a new building development, it is so huge. Massive shopping complex, 1000s of houses.
Only thing, when they need to start the ground works, there is a small forest with animals birds.
It is very sandy, and there is 100s of ants nests in the sand. Billions upon Billions of ants.

Is it logical to not proceed?

The prime directive works great between similar species.
But not so much for the folks who encounter the Borg or Species 8472.

You can't use our logic here,
Click to expand...
Hi,
I think you are putting flesh on the idea by Stephen Hawking that maybe we shouldn't contact aliens because look what happened to the indigenous people when the 'more advanced' Spanish Conquistidors landed in South America.
For one thing, if aliens are advanced enough to visit Earth then I'd imagine they are advanced enough to fulfill all their material needs without harvesting resources from more vulnerable civilisations. There is an abundance of energy freely available in the galaxy which can be converted into any material required.
For another thing, without empathy, civilisations are unstable. They think nothing of doing as you describe: letting others starve so that they may thrive. Instability doesn't last long, whereas, by definition, stability endures. And what is stable is caring for one another, efficiently cooperating so that everyone has an optimised quality of life. Therefore, any enduring civilisation, and therefore one which has lasted long enough to achieve, and be ALLOWED, inter-stellar travel, is far more likely to be of the stable, empathetic, variety than the unstable, capitalising, kind.
If there ever is an alien invasion, my guess is that it'd be planned, or allowed, as part of a larger, infinitely old, plan to nudge Earth on to the path of harmonious unity.
 
Bri_73 said:
Hi,
I think you are putting flesh on the idea by Stephen Hawking that maybe we shouldn't contact aliens because look what happened to the indigenous people when the 'more advanced' Spanish Conquistidors landed in South America.
For one thing, if aliens are advanced enough to visit Earth then I'd imagine they are advanced enough to fulfill all their material needs without harvesting resources from more vulnerable civilisations. There is an abundance of energy freely available in the galaxy which can be converted into any material required.
For another thing, without empathy, civilisations are unstable. They think nothing of doing as you describe: letting others starve so that they may thrive. Instability doesn't last long, whereas, by definition, stability endures. And what is stable is caring for one another, efficiently cooperating so that everyone has an optimised quality of life. Therefore, any enduring civilisation, and therefore one which has lasted long enough to achieve, and be ALLOWED, inter-stellar travel, is far more likely to be of the stable, empathetic, variety than the unstable, capitalising, kind.
If there ever is an alien invasion, my guess is that it'd be planned, or allowed, as part of a larger, infinitely old, plan to nudge Earth on to the path of harmonious unity.
Click to expand...
It is a valid argument though. But I am not saying we should not contact them, just that we should be very careful.
And your assumptions regarding an alien civilizations motivations and morals are OK as assumptions but would you really put mankind at risk based on that. How much do you know about...Egyptian culture, or Islamic faith, or perhaps African customs.

They differ immensely here on earth among folks from the same planet with similar history.

Do you really surmise that a race of Aliens from another world, 1000, 5000, 1 Million years ahead of us will have the same moral code?
They may be wonderful and benevolent, but I would not risk humanity on that assumption,
 
Dundee said:
It is a valid argument though. But I am not saying we should not contact them, just that we should be very careful.
And your assumptions regarding an alien civilizations motivations and morals are OK as assumptions but would you really put mankind at risk based on that. How much do you know about...Egyptian culture, or Islamic faith, or perhaps African customs.

They differ immensely here on earth among folks from the same planet with similar history.

Do you really surmise that a race of Aliens from another world, 1000, 5000, 1 Million years ahead of us will have the same moral code?
Click to expand...
 
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